Unpopular opinion here (I am also a childfree person)
As much as I don’t want them, kids are the future of every society and we all suffer the consequences of a general societal parental inadequacy (the kids today will be our doctors, carers, drivers, etc)
So, while some places take it to a ridiculous extreme and act as if parents are just completely free of any duties, I do think that generally workers who have children, especially small children, should get certain benefits and have more relaxed hours to give them the space to be proper parents.
Of course in an ideal society all of us would have a significant amount of free time and we wouldn’t need to bother with making any special treatment for parents because we would all have the time we need to do the things we want and if those things are being parents then parents will have the time to both be parents and also do some of the other things they want. Currently we don’t live in that society and work is almost entirely consuming of our free time.
Also in an ideal society, choosing to keep an unintentional pregnancy would have about the same level of social stigma as choosing to abort one carries today in Oklahoma or Utah.
Also in an ideal society getting a child support order for anything more than half the cost of an abortion would be impossible without proof the pregnancy was intended by both parents, doctors refusing to sterilize anyone of reproductive age who wants to be sterilized wiuld be considered malpractice, and accessing any social services for expecting/new parents would be contingent on both parents enrolling in classes about effective parenting and early childhood development.
I could go on and on, but the two original sins of modern society that must be eliminated are the idea that having a baby is always a good thing, and the idea that the biological parents are magically equipped to be the best possible people to raise a child.
Everyone I work with has kids, so… We’re all in the same boat?
Also, leaving the office whenever? You know that shit is falling under sick time or people are skipping lunches to have two hours off one day.
Or maybe just band together and fight for more time off for everyone so you aren’t at the will of a few billionaires obsessed with you as slave labor?
Exactly thank you.
the truth is that youre both right. But most people who resd your comments will …read it…consider jt for a little while… and then do the most detrimental thing they can do for their freedoms when a situation like this arises in their lives which is either give up their free time for Our ‘beloved’ slavedrivers or theyll pretend they also have a kid.
Nothing will change sadly…
Before going that far, workers should consider explaining less. If you tell people why you can’t work overtime, they will trivialize your outside commitments. If you “have another commitment” then they can’t argue with the substance.
Of course your boss could still threaten to fire you, if it’s the US with shitty labor law. But be smart, and stop providing the argumentative material to them.
Similarly, just don’t answer the phone or text messages on your day off. Don’t friend your boss on social media… If that’s your baseline, again, they have less information to use against you, and all of the pointless arguments simply stop happening.
This is all surprisingly easy to do if you plan it out in advance. The key point is that your boss is not your friend and the company is not your family.
Best thing my job ever did for me was give me a phone stiped to get a dedicated work phone. I work in government and it allows me to log into work systems without mixing with my personal stuff, allows me to work remote more easily, and keeps my main personal phone from being subject to Open Records requests.
But what it also means is I can leave the phone at the house and forget work when I’m off the clock. With previous jobs I couldn’t help myself and I’d read emails and shit I got over the weekend. Now I just turn off the work phone and enjoy my time off.
And if there’s a legit emergency that needs my attention, they do have my personal cell number, but simply having it as a separate number keeps them from sending bullshit to it.
Also, it’s handy for my boss to be able to send me a short Teams message or something they want me to take care of first thing Monday knowing that they’re not interrupting my weekend.
I would never allow any business, private, public, governmental or otherwise to dictate how I use my personal phone. If they’re not providing a company device, I’m not interacting with, messaging, logging in, synching, answering emails, etc. with my personal device. It’s simply a hard no.
They give me the money for the second phone which I have on a separate account and carrier from my personal phone.
Ya, I just leave the office whenever I need to. I think if asked I might bullshit something about fresh air breaks being in the safety training, but nobody asks.
One of the best parts of a job with a strong union culture.
If I’m not going to be able to get to work, that’s literally all I am required to tell them. At this point, management doesn’t even want to know why.
Or better yet, don’t have social media that’s connected to real world people. If nobody knows where you are based on photos nobody can call you out on “being sick” and cashing in a couple of sick days for a quick break.
Might make for a decent prank.
tbh I think it’s a bit cruel. If it was real it would ruin your life thinking that your life could possibly be ruined must not be nice.
Yeah you’re right, even if you told them quickly for these moments it would be awful.
I don’t know what kind of job this person has, but this strikes me as the least empathetic statement a person could make. Yes, I have young children, and I learned that I knew nothing about parenting before having kids.
I’m pretty sure we sure be fighting a class war instead
I was like that when I was 16. Completely childish behavior. Unless those parents offload their work constantly to other employees. Or let the team down.
Yeah same with pets. You have obligations people who don’t have can not understand! /S
Your hobby! don’t tell me you are doing it for me or something. Humanity would survive if you would not have reproduced.
You really out here trying to equate having a family with hobbies like knitting and golf? Wild take bro.
I mean I’m a parent but I don’t expect that to be of any more interest to my coworkers than if I were a civil war reenactor or a golfer. it’s not for for me to say that my family carries more weight than their lives. so - yes, we do equate having a family with knitting and golf; we equate them exactly. the knitter is not less important than me.
Yes. If I put my whole life behind knitting and it’s my whole life who are you saying it’s less that your child?
So I’ve seen in a previous job where someone was complaining that a guy was leaving at 4pm to get his kid and how it was unfair just because he had a child.
What that person bitching and moaning didn’t see was that the parent was getting into work MUCH earlier than him, and would regularly log back on when getting home.
Sure there are some parents who take the piss, but there are also plenty of parents that put the hours in and more, they just need a little flexibility because childcare and the associated costs are a fucking joke and society isn’t set up to enable single income families.
I know of jobs where people with kids get to choose assignments more regularly if there’s travel involved because they have kids and because the managers have kids. Like, you no kid person, hit the road next week. I mean I get it, but it is discriminatory.
Raising a kid is work. If one of your co-workers had a random second job they had to keep and it paid nothing, how would your treat them?
“Raising a kid is work” Its also voluntary lol. You dont get to have sympathy for a decision.
My kids are more important than work or my coworkers. And so are my coworkers kids to them. Those who don’t have kids get to take off just the same for any issue at my work so maybe my life is too good for this meme
One could argue any number of hobbies or pets could have the same level of import to an individual and also require a similarly demanding schedule.
100% agree.
I mean somewhat a generalization. Still if you don’t want to empathize with the parent you still should empathize with the kid, you can’t just like leave the kid there unless you want to argue the kid should be taken away from this person which just feels cruel for both sides.
although that probs works with everyone having flexible hours which… I don’t think would even decrease profit too much? This seems more like a problem with the bosses anyways.
“Raising a kid is work” Its also voluntary lol.
That’s like saying payments on your car financing are voluntary.
Once you have made the decision the consequences are no longer voluntary.
They chose to get that job. I did not choose to get discriminated against for not choosing that job.
Then get used to it, that is how life works. People reproduce. Raising new human is hard. It is a well respected work and most adult ppl understand it and try to show empathy. Stop bitching about it in the internet go confront your boss
Did they? Most pregnancies are voluntary, but not all
The pregnancy isn’t the fine point here.
Well you can bitch and moan all you want about breeders but the fact remains that their offspring will finance society as you age.
I am a parent myself and I see reproduction as the most egotistical thing you can do. At the same time those who do not are more or less leeches from a societal perspective.
I the end we are all free to chose paths but stop complaining about the choices others have made. Yours do not make you superior.
Leeches? You’re kidding right? I pay into the taxes which fund your child’s schools, WIC, libraries, Medicare and all of the other things which children benefit from, that I do not, because I do NOT have children. I’m the opposite of a leech, I contribute more and use less than most parents. You need people like me contributing monetarily, socially, and culturally and not using all of the services to make it all work. I’m not going to shit on people who have kids, because as you said we all make choices, but don’t for a second think you’re somehow superior because you made a different choice than me.
Money isn’t everything. Or rather: if there are no people left to work for your money you have nothing to contribute (but your own work). You need other people kids more than they need your (relatively small) monetary contribution.
Where on earth are you going with this. You’re replying as if I somehow think nobody should have kids. Nowhere did I say or even imply that, no did I denigrate those that choose to. I simply refuted that those who choose not to are leeches simply by their lack of offspring. That’s a dumb statement. No society on earth has everyone reproducing; that has never and will never be a thing. There are other ways to contribute to the collective good, and society as a whole that have nothing to do with having children. Yes, people need to reproduce for our species to succeed, and I respect those who choose to do so. That doesn’t make them superior though, and calling me a leech for choosing not to is asinine.
Yes and when you get old and stop working those kids will pay for you. You do realise that a declining population is problem for this reason, right?
You’re assuming I’m not making provisions for myself and will be reliant on the system of taxes for my wellbeing. A declining population is only a problem when the entire system is in shambles. There is more than enough money and resources for every person on this earth to live comfortably; we’re just busy throwing away food and spending wealth and resources bombing each other and preventing “unworthy” people from accessing basic necessities.
Don’t come at me as if I’m some child hating monster who thinks all parents are bad. I replied because you called me a leech for having the audacity to choose differently than you. I respect parents for the tough job they’ve taken on, especially in this day and age, but that doesn’t somehow make you superior. It takes a village, and not everyone in the village needs to reproduce to make it successful. Get off your high horse.
It literally is not. I will be dead.
Anti-natalists do not realize this, no.
their offspring will finance society
That is quite an assumption
They being people who breed
stop complaining about the choices others have made. Yours do not make you superior.
those who do not [breed] are more or less leeches from a societal perspective.
Wow. I guess I missed the part where people without kids don’t have to pay taxes and just get free retirement…
Your taxes finance the retirement of the people currently retired. Your retirement is financed by kids who will work when you’re retired
Well when you get old and stop working those kids will pay back by paying taxes themselves. That is the part you missed.
It’s infuriating that you don’t see how incredibly fucking stupid that is. It isn’t a universal truth either; it hasn’t always been this way and it isn’t even this way all over the world today. Hell, it doesn’t even actually work currently in the US, how many retired people do you know that actually only live on Social Security? Basically fucking none because it is nowhere near enough money to retire, despite paying in an absolute fortune over their entire working lives. That same money saved in almost any other imaginable way would do more to support retirees than the awful fucking system we have now that relies on the next few generations to pay.
That’s because what you are espousing the benefits of like it is the obvious and only system is just a forced fucking ponzi scheme.
So when I invest in the future by planting fruit trees I become A leech when I collect fruit off those trees?
You read didn’t that right.
You conflate work and responsibilities. everyone has the latter, and the schedule juggling that comes with it.
I would treat them like a fucking idiot, because that is a terrible decision to have made… Your analogy really sucks here. I don’t think coworkers with kids are complete fucking idiots, but the hypothetical person in your comment is a complete fucking idiot.
What’s this corporate billionaire propaganda?
Oh yeah… Parenthood… Real easy. We’re doing it for the work breaks.
Your literacy needs work.
Oh that shit pissed me off so bad and smokers… I quit a job because they were going to move me across the country to fill a roll they could find a local because I was the single guy. I said no and they said I have “no choice” bad move, I have a choice.
Then they had 2 spots to fill, fucking dummies.
That “boss” went from senior director to basic manager in the next year for shit like this. Fuck you Adam.
Was a server and used to take “fresh air” breaks. Some smokers were annoyed. Others completely understood.
to fill a roll
Oh! With custard I hope?
Kids are understandable. What (mildly) annoys me is the free pass for smoke breaks.
Id say its about the same.
UNO reverse card: Kids are a choice, smoking is an addiction.
But smoking is to a degree a choice. Tobacco isnt like heroin. You can quit it cold turkey . And YES I GET IT its a hard addiction to defeat , weve known this for like half a century now… but it can be defeated with enough time and patience away from tobacco.
But kids are not a choice you can or can not take care of once you have produced them. Personally I feel that the modern economy makes it so that EVERYONE should be discouraged from having kids cause the hours and pay that person has to work these days in most places is nonsensical. So I dont get why we STILL have so many cultures that continue to peer pressure people into having ‘band-aid babies’ or ‘young-love, straight-outta-college babies’ but thats just me. Only choice you have when youre having a child is to abort or not and to give them up to adoption or not. After that? Youre only options are ‘take care of them when you have the time to’ (break time) or ‘watch them destroy your life, your community , and their lives’ ’
You don’t “defeat” an addiction. You always will be an addict, just one that stopped using the substance.
Ah youre correct. Im wrong. Sorry.
Its more like you avoid the substance( like alcohol addiction or nicotine or whatever youre addicted to ) or the pracetice (whether that be gambling addiction or self-harming addiction or whatever) and find that it doesnt impact your life . You dont ever truly ‘defeat’ an addiction. You just significantly taper its impact to your life.
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Pretty sure hospitals keep some alcohol on hand in case a severe alcoholic is going through withdrawals as that can be deadly. They don’t keep cigarettes on hand. Unsure about other hard drugs. If a parent decided to quit parenting we call that abandonment or child abuse and put them in jail. These are not the same.
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But, as a rule, I don’t really like blowing smokers. Smoker cum legit tastes much worse than normal.
Exactly!
People love to argue about whether kids count as work and whether they’re voluntary but workers get old and retire. They need to be replaced. In our society we don’t subsidize this process, even though social reproduction is part of the overall capitalist mode of production. They’ve convinced you to provide a replacement labor force for them and they are not paying you for your labor. And then they even get you to feel bad about it.
When you adopt a cat, you should be entitled to paid caternity leave.
Only if it is 0-2 m.o cat
It’s a positive world that embraces people with pets taking their responsibilities seriously.
This comment is patently anti-dog. This is an outrage! I demand paid pupternity leave!
Down with the puptriarchy! (/s)
I try to be very open and forgiving, as it’s the same as what if I have a sick parent or spouse that I need to take care of. Same thing.
HOWEVER. I have a WFH job that is very heads down and forgiving on time, and most days we have 1, count it ONE meeting that lasts 15 minutes. A daily standup. I have coworkers with kids who miss it DAILY, usually because of childcare. How, how do you miss our ONE meeting? If your kids are at home then how do I trust that you are actually working most of the day if you can’t set aside 15 minutes daily? If your kids need to be dropped off then I’m sorry but how does it take that exact 15 minute period every day? Can’t drop them off 15 minutes earlier or later? (And yes, we’ve adjusted our daily times, but then after a month or so it starts happening again). To be fair I think they’re just blaming the childcare.
If your kids need to be dropped off then I’m sorry but how does it take that exact 15 minute period every day? Can’t drop them off 15 minutes earlier or later?
The school drop off windows are very strick. They usually cant legally let the children in before a certain time, and if theyre late, then the they get tardies and discipline as theyre missing class. My kids need to be dropped off between 7:45 and 7:55. I have to account for car line. And schools 20 minutes away. If i worked from home, id be spending basically 50 minutes to drop my kids off.
And i only have 1 school to drop off at. Multiple kids of varying ages can easily have multiple schools with varying start times. And not all districts and locations within those districts have busses.
This is what has happened because families need 2 workings parents to function now. In the old times when 1 working parent made enough money to support a family, the other parent would be supporting the kids. We’re basically asking parents with kids to work 3 full time jobs now
What happened to walking to school and playing in the yard for an hour untill school starts?
Do they not have busses where you are?
Legit question. Why not use the bus?
( I am assuming it’s available as I’ve never heard of a place that doesn’t have buses. So my assumption could be wrong. )
Not every district has busses that cover the whole district. Especially as people continue vote down tax levies. You’re also assuming the children are old enough to ride the bus. Less than 4 or 5 isnt an option
Lived in 2 districts that didnt bus for us. 1 we were “too close” so we were cut off the route after they didnt pass a tax levy, so they didnt have funding. Our current location is “too far” so we dont have busses
Just addressing your last paragraph - it’s August, which means rather than the relatively stable school schedule (less so around Mondays and Fridays, for some reason), we’re coming off of summer camp season.
We had our kids enrolled in a different camp every week, just to get nearly-full coverage. And they all have different schedules, with similar dropoff and pickup requirements.
To reiterate - US childcare is a joke, and everyone suffers for it.
I have a 2 year old and can confirm that as long as the meeting is 15m and does not collide with pickup/dropoff/morning routine (e.g. 10am) I would make it every time.
I pretend to be an alcoholic so I can act like an ass at the work parties. I don’t even drink.
