• tacosanonymous@mander.xyz
    731·
    27 天前

    How would he know?

    Because, he’d have to know the answer and then willfully lie for his nose to grow. Alternatively, giving a confident answer when he doesn’t know would make his nose grow regardless of him being correct.

  • BitUnWise@programming.dev
    541·
    26 天前

    I’ve had conversations with my friends on whether his nose grows based on deception or the truth value of the statement. My friend and I with rather secular upbringings grew up thinking it was based on deception and my friends with rather extreme Christian upbringings grew up thinking it was based on the truth. Obviously a very small sample size but I do wonder if there is a correlation

      • Ruthalas@infosec.pub
        21·
        26 天前

        I think in this case it’s the exact opposite. The secular friends believed it changed based on pinocchio’s personal beliefs and attempted deceptions, while the christians apparently believed it changed based on whether his words reflected some absolute truth, regardless of his personal thoughts and beliefs. fwiw

        • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
          2·
          26 天前

          I’m saying that the Pinocchio nose thing is clearly based on his lying, i.e. on stating something he knows/believes to be false, not an objective truth. It is the theme of the story.

          And all too commonly, Christian (and other) fundamentalists extend beyond mere faith into delusion where they lose track of what is their personal belief and what is ubiquitous accepted reality. Sometimes to the point that that they actually cannot accept that others simply don’t believe in their deity. They genuinely think that their deity not only definitely exists, but such a fact is unquestionably apparent on the face of it to everyone and competely beyond reproach. So when one claims to be an atheist, or hold another faith, the only conclusion that they can come to is that you actually do know their deity exists and so your denial of them is either out of evil, misplaced anger, brainwashing (by evil men or the devil or something similar) or you are a grifter with some other agenda. Whatever it is, it most certainly can’t be a sound, justified, reasonable lack of belief in their god. That’s nonsense.

          Again, that’s not all of them, but any means. But it’s not uncommon either.

  • gray@lemmy.ml
    212·
    27 天前

    If you say something you’re convinced is correct with the best intentions. But it turns out to be incorrect. Will you burn in hell for breaking one of the 10 commandments? Asking for a friend.

    • samus12345@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      141·
      26 天前

      No. Lying is making a claim you actually believe is untrue. It’s actual truthfulness is irrelevant. If you believe it’s true, it’s not a lie.

      • 5too@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        26 天前

        Yep, still working through this with one of my kids. Lying requires an intent to deceive, to mislead. You can say things that are untrue without meaning to, which is not lying

      • psivchaz@reddthat.com
        4·
        26 天前

        I’d like to believe there would be some carve out here for willful ignorance. Like if the truth is easily accessible and you choose to believe contrary to that because of some other thing, maybe you don’t get grace on that.

        • samus12345@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          26 天前

          Going strictly by the biblical wording, that wouldn’t matter. As long as you definitely believe it’s true, it’s not a lie. Now, if you have some doubt, but don’t admit it? That would qualify.

    • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
      16·
      26 天前

      “When I talk to philosophers on Zoom, I use a background that’s a picture of my real background so that I can trick them into having a justified true belief that is not knowledge.”

      • Mr.Chewy@lemmy.world
        5·
        26 天前

        “I am telling you, I saw Kojima in my town’s coffee shop ride the rising gear of metal in the fountain!” However, I’m a hyperphantasiac to the extreme where I hardly distinguish between being present in my dreams and reality. I told you the truth, I did see that, but the fact of whether that happened is not there.

        Iunno tho, I’m taking a wild guess of what they could’ve meant, this logic seems most sound for that statement to be sensical

      • Etterra@discuss.onlineEnglish
        1·
        12 天前

        Archaic example.

        Truth: during the middle ages doctors believed that disease was caused by miasma, or “bad air,” and that by breathing it in could cause illness.

        Fact: Disease was caused by microorganisms, which spread by vectors such as insect bites, coughing and sneezing, and contaminated drinking water, among others.

  • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
    7·
    26 天前

    This only works if Pinocchio is an all knowing entity. If he doesn’t know shit about the universe, than his lies aren’t proof that the opposite statement is true.

  • hansolo@lemmy.today
    4·
    26 天前

    Fool. Wong question.

    “Do things in undiscovered extra dimensions affect our dimension by way gravity?”

  • alcea@feddit.org
    86·
    26 天前

    If taking hostages is required for solving the “universe’s secrets” it can gladly keep its secrets.

    At the end of it there will be a CEO extracting money from completly unrelated research. Humans are dumb.