100%

As a nonVeg/Vegan I will always pass on an impossible burger, I eat black bean burgers, palak paneer, mushroom steaks, etc… regularly. I don’t see them as vegetarian (cus I don’t care if they are) just a meal choice that tastes good which is weirdly the most important thing when I am looking for something to eat. Making meat substitutes that don’t live up to the original just invites comparison as you said.

That said always exceptions to rules! I have heard of some meat free bacon being delicious.

It’s one thing to just copy wholesale what another culture is doing, and another thing entirely to recognize that another culture fills in certain gaps on what could improve fulfillment and enjoyment in your own life.

For westerners following a vegan diet, there is a strong culinary benefit from learning from other cultures’ vegetarian and vegan dishes, for a reset away from most western cultures’ meat-forward approach to food and dining.

So pointing out poor health outcomes of a particular group of people doesn’t actually disprove that bringing in their cuisine will improve the overall diet of the person who made this post.

Fiber in particular

Almost as though they’ve been refining their craft for 3000 years.

I believe that. We get our yoghurt from Indian food stores. $6 for 2.5 kilos. It’s nuts!

I get not wanting to listen to right-wing misinformation like “it’s impossible for vegans/vegetarians to meet all their nutritional requirements,” because that’s bullshit. It’s absolutely possible, and not even difficult. It just requires some intelligent planning.

I do think that Americans have been trained to believe “Vegetarian” is eating a salad or a bunch of crunchy hors d’oeuvre.

There’s a famous story of a community in Mississippi plagued by health issues, specific to the white population. The workers in this town were subsisting on cornbread, molasses, and a scant ration of salted meat. But only the colored communities were eating beans, because it was considered a “low class” food. Consequently, the meager ration of meat wasn’t enough to fulfill nutritional needs for the white population, while the colored folks thrived.

Honestly, it’s people who also completely ignore the evolutionary requirements of a human diet. I’m thinking of people who obsess over carbs like they’re some kind of poison, or the nutjobs who think that humans can and will do just fine as carnivores or fructivores.

When I first went vegan, it was for health reasons. I’d had an accident and I fucked up my guts pretty good. Gluten and meat, and even dairy and eggs were literally hurting me to consume, so I had absolutely no choice in the matter. I’m better now, but it was a rough couple of years.

I remember this one vegan YouTuber vividly. He was insisting that eating nothing but fruit had been good for him, that this was what a healthy human looked like, and everyone else was crazy. I just looked at this dude with his sallow, papery skin and gaunt frame, and I just went, “Ooookay, great incentive to start adding things back into my diet as soon as I’m healthy enough to handle them again.”

By all means, be vegan. I think it’s genuinely a great idea. If you can’t, then be vegetarian. It’s also a great idea. If you can’t do either, then just be sensible and eat less meat. But ffs, take a good look at the people who fell so far down the rabbit hole that they look like living ghouls, and pay attention to the hard science and good common sense.

There is a ton of debate on this and in some cases if you standardize for affluence / income level the differences disappear.

There’s a lot of questions about cutoffs used for certain conditions and whether they can be used universally.

BMI is the most obvious example of a measure that should have for different cutoffs for different populations.

The WHO cutoffs for anemia were established over 50 years ago based on predominantly European and North American populations.

Sachdev et al., 2021 identified a subset of “healthy” Indian children from the CNNS data who had no iron, B12, or folate deficiencies and no inflammation.

In this perfectly “healthy” group, the 5th percentile of hemoglobin—the statistical cutoff for anemia—was 1.0 to 2.1 g/dL lower than the WHO standards across all age groups.

The researchers argued that if the population is “healthy” at lower Hb levels, using the higher WHO cutoff misclassifies millions of healthy people as anemic, creating a “false epidemic.”

Research published in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2023) examined at what point adding more iron stops increasing a person’s hemoglobin.

For Indian women, the “steady state” was reached at a hemoglobin level of roughly 10.8 g/dL.

The WHO cutoff for non-pregnant women is 12.0 g/dL. This suggests that even when an Indian woman has optimal iron stores, her body may naturally maintain a hemoglobin level lower than the Western-derived standard

Most large-scale surveys in India use a finger-prick (capillary) test. Studies have shown that capillary blood often yields lower hemoglobin readings than venous blood (drawn from a vein) because of “interstitial fluid” dilution during the prick.

When the CNNS used venous blood, the anemia prevalence among adolescents was found to be significantly lower than what previous capillary-based surveys had suggested.

Just providing some context. There are many that advocate for universal cutoffs for a variety of reasons. But it should be understood that the interpretation of the data may not represent a meaningfully “deficient” state here. There are several examples of how using “normal ranges” that were based on a subset of the global population may lead us to dubious conclusions.

Only a fraction has a balanced, protein-rich vegetarian diet as the norm.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s not because of bad dietary choices, but because of poverty? I mean, the problem isn’t the vegetarian diet, but that people can’t afford enough food in general?

Hi it’s me. Someone who is vegetsrianish (moving towards cooking no meat at home (save for occasional fish and eating it on vacation or special occasions - kids 4th of July bbq party). I’m actually trying to get deep into Indian cuisine where I can find a balance of flavor and meeting all the nutritional needs while not porking out on carbs.

Ethiopian lol, where I live kebabs are exotic

I don’t think Ethiopian food gets the respect it deserves. There’s a place I’ve been going to for years, pretty much always get lebleb tibs and that injera bread is so good. It’s spongy and has a slight sour taste to it that’s so good with the rest of the food.

I’ve always wanted to try it

Injera is the only reason I don’t make Ethiopian more often. Teff Love is the recipe book I used and the misir wot is easy and great, but the injera recipe calls for planning ahead three days.

Agreed 100%, I need to learn how to make that, next!

Its insane how many cultures are just not appreciated at all, I personally love Dominican food (I may be biased since I live in NYC) but also Albanian and Bosnian food. Hell most Americans dont even know what those countries are and almost certainly cant point them out on a map.

where do you buy teff?

Looks good to me. I like to dice some carrots in mine sometimes. Occasionally I’ll throw in a chunk of vegan butter for richness (or just more olive oil lol).

Whole Thai chilis chopped and fried in your oil before everything else helps give it a nice warming spiciness.

Also tempering your dry spices if you aren’t already. I like tomato paste at the end of this too…

What else… Hm, sometimes msg, but I don’t really care for it these days.

Also don’t ignore the heartier lentils like green - they make great vegetable stews

Add some mustard seeds, dried red pepper, asafoetida and give it some tadka. Also consider adding amsul which gives it a nice tangy taste

1kg or dry lentils matched to 150g of curry paste is my lazy dahl. I might add veggies, tofu, coconut cream or whatever is available but that ratio makes a nice spicy dahl from my experience. Be careful with many curry pastes having fish/prawn in them (eg, Mae Ploy Green Curry Paste).

unconventional but butter makes everything better.

This is by design. Throughout civilizational history, one’s in-group was made up of the civilized and any outgroup were “barbarians”. During the colonial era, as power and wealth shifted westward, the first global narrative of this kind was proselytized where one side of the world was civilized and the other was not.

During this period a lot of the history of the Eastern world was distorted and warped to accurately fit that narrative. This was to promote the idea of a “civilizing mission”, one where the exploitation of this era could be overlooked since the “lesser” who were victimized by it were “benefitted” by proximity to those more civilized than them.

A global race based caste system is what came out of this era. Anyone with their eyes open can see it everywhere around them, regardless of which hemisphere you’re in. Now, as power in the world rebalances, perhaps closer to a more natural state, the seams of that construct are slowly coming undone and the hegemon that had once defined the global narrative will no longer be able to silence the voices it once deemed as “lesser”.

I for one am excited for a future where people get to tell their own story and explore their own history. No, I don’t think about the Roman empire very often but I do look at the Mauryan empire, Chanakya and his treatise on statecraft (the Arthashahtra), and the university of ancient Taxila with a deep fascination - and there’s nothing wrong with that.

I also enjoy reading verses from the Kamasutra which was remarkably forward thinking (though not perfect) for its time with regard to promoting financial independence for women, autonomy, mutual enthusiastic consent, respect towards sex workers and the importance of balance during courtship - all of which was cast aside as paganism when it was made known in this part of the world, in favor of the glossary on sex positions. It also discusses homosexuality and transsexuality inclusively, concluding:

​"In all things pertaining to love, who can say what is right and what is wrong? Let each person follow their own nature." — Book 2, Chapter 9

Words to live by.

Agree, Indian food isn’t as well known in US. It’s more than just Butter Chicken, Naan, and biryani. It’s a whole diverse cuisine. I’ve noticed South Indian restaurants are less common in US compared to North Indian and South Indian food has so much good variety. Dosa, Vada, Idli, Utthapam, Sambal, etc.

I’m Marathi myself and I only know 1-2 Marathi restaurants in my city. It’s hard to find things like Pav Bhaji, Kande Poha, Mugachi Usal, etc. in restaurants. So most of the time we end up cooking at home since we don’t get this food outside.

Plus the sheer amount of dal and other legume dishes

Textured soy replaces tofu/paneer in most recipes just fine.

None of these are traditional Indian dishes, tofu was only introduced to India a few centuries ago. But vegetarianism (more commonly ovo-lacto) as well as veganism (e.g., a lot of Jain food) has been very common for thousands of years.

As the other poster said, if you don’t do paneer there’s a ton of protein to be found in dal (lentil) and chana (chickpea) dishes. And if you don’t do cream or ghee most any dish can be made with coconut milk and boiled ground cashews.

Indian vegetarians don’t eat eggs. And in middle income to lower income families 500ml milk between 4-5 ppl.