This website made me reconsider if 99.9999% SLA and always online is really that important for lots of websites. I used to self-host my own server in my own apartment, but gave up on that after my internet provider had their first major outage that lasted almost a week. Also I didn’t want to worry about the fire hazard, or the server going down when I was traveling etc.
But a solar powered server seems interesting, if the batteries could be made fire safe.
The uptime looks better than GitHubs…
I know this is a typo, but I’m sad Guthub isn’t a food delivery company.
gut pull sandwich.com
gut commit -m “ate too much”
gut pushdeleted by creator
GitSub
A disappointment equivalent to Piefed.
Companies claiming 99.9999 uptime is an absurd goal for a SLA, and wouldn’t even survive a small internet outage like a DDoS attack or Akamai outage. I remember in the 90s selling the idea of 5 9’s - 99.999% on my resume until some manager who Interviewed me asked me to state the expected downtime. I stopped claiming that number because it’s impossible without full active redundancy in different locations and not dependent on external providers like cloudflare ever going down.
And please don’t argue maintenance windows “cover it” because that’s not how they work in the real world today.
Downtime per year:
- 99% ~3.65 days (5,256 min)
- 99.9% ~8.77 hours (526 min)
- 99.99% ~52.6 min
- 99.999% ~5.26 min
- 99.9999% ~31.5 seconds
For my home lab I’m happy my stuff is online and content I hardly lose access when there’s a power outage thanks to my ups. But if I tracked I’d be closer to 95%. Good enough but I can’t wait till I just don’t care to run anything.
I worked for a “99.999%” up time facility. No one talks about the exceptions that don’t effect that number. Some are out of our hands like weather or a knob w/ a backhoe.
Others are just made up by upper management to hit the numbers for their bonuses.
Also, any non-trivial system has failure modes that are not binary. Like, if your convertible car has the roof stuck down you can drive it, but you will be sad if it rains. So, is the car “up” or not? Similarly, if your site has writes offline for a database upgrade, but reads work fine, is it “up”?
The concept is just advertising and something that makes sense to senior management, but provides no actual useful metrics.
100% uptime since the last time we turned it on!
works every time half of the time!
Well… Sorta works half the time, but we deleted the bad reviews
There’s a nifty project on Mastodon where someone is running an instance entirely on solar (and I think a battery?). They’ve been tinkering with some of the code to do things like optimise images for reduced weight or CPU cost.
The project is called @solaradmin@solarcene.community and the account for the person running it is on a separate instance, presumably so people can message them about problems: @smallsolar@techhub.social.
I used to work on the website for a utility company that insisted on ridiculous uptime. Our major deployments risked taking the system down for a few seconds, though in practice that never happened.
As a result, they made us do deployments starting at 3:00 in the morning since that was the least active time on the site. Fuuuuuuuuck that place.
This was cool 5 years ago, now you can get solar panels and a home battery big enough to power this thing 24x7 without an issue, even if the sun was fully blacked out for a week
edit: a 40kwh battery would last with the power draw:
Power usage 2.62W
like over a year
There’s a lot of articles about supply based usage vs demand based energy production on that website. The idea that it turns off every now and then is sort of part of the authors’ intention of showing “we can live with some outages”.
This article in particular is a good one: https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2017/09/how-not-to-run-a-modern-society-on-solar-and-wind-power-alone/
Now they can get better hardware, but should they? They take seriously the low tech part, and part of being low tech is fighting against consumerism culture and keeping with what they have, which is wotking fine
I think you entirelly missed the point then
A 40Kwh battery is like 10 grand, I’m not sure why you brought that up. I’d be more likely to invest in a second battery and solar panel. It’s been up for over 23 weeks right now, I’d guess a second solar panel and battery could keeping it up nearly 100% of the time, and it’d cost under $100 for a 200wh battery and 30w panel.
the chemical battery is often the most expensive and least eco part of the scheme.
garage is a software project made for communal home hosting. Tech literates will talk about its S3 API but that’s the least interesting part: the most interesting is that it has been purposely built to be hosted on (actual) commodity hardware like second-hand nucs, running on flaky home power and internet and linked together through usual isps. Nodes may come up and down but the cluster withstands all of that.
Garage would be a pretty nice project to run a solar-powered mini-cluster. If sufficiently far from each other, you could even run without polluting batteries !
Over a period of roughly one year (351 days, from 12 December 2018 to 28 November 2019) the server was up for 95.26% of the time. This means that we were offline for 399 hours (which corresponds to 16.64 days).
Not bad at all really, at least for non-mission critical sites. I have solar and I really like it. Solar power on two barns, and a lot of my security cams run on solar. I’m not sure if it’s the formatting of this site, or the grainy pictures, but it oddly reminds me of the Trojan Room coffee pot.
I would be curious to know this uptime relative to any other self-hosted sites.
I remember Reddit and Twitter constantly suffering from uptime issues and they were far more decentralized, with modern infrastructure to match.
Is 95.2% all that far out of the realm of expectation?
The part I quoted was one of their many tries. It seems now, after changing out the solar panel and battery, that they have greatly improved over 95.2%.
Well of course you gotta think, Reddit and Twitter were also probably getting a lot more hits than Low Tech Mag 😅
Uptime for home users is useless. More important is recovery, reboot and resume (the 3’Rs)
You server should reboot automatically, storage should restore itself from unsafe shutdown and your services should resume operations like nothing happened.
This means test your reboot, ensure stuff doesn’t break, and so on.
Failing storage after an hard reboot is the hardest.
For network, i have two ISP connections and a an auto switch script Incase one goes down. But honestly it’s overkill and not needed for 99% of home hosters.
Buying some kind of UPS like a battery powered power strip is also nice but keep in mind that require maintenance to replace batteries once every few years (long enough to forget) and so be useless. The ups shall only last enough to perform a controlled server shutdown using NUTS.
Lead-acid batteries work if you don’t care about weight and lithium-iron phosphate if you do
You’re better off with the LiFePO4 batteries even if you don’t care about weight. A lead acid battery will wear out quickly when you cycle it daily. Lithium also has a higher charging efficiency, so you get more usable power from the solar panel.
Lithium-iron is about 2x more expensive, there might be different availability and energy use during manufacture is probably higher
It’s honestly impressive what you can do with under 3W of power these days
At one point in time, I was obsessed with getting a Thinkpad to the lowest power consumption possible.
I think I managed to drop it down to ~3w, with the screen and radio fully disabled.
“Hey look everyone! We never heard of grid scale batteries!”
Grid scale batteries are only a solution for transients, if that. Actual energy storage needs to be scalable like pumped storage hydro which accounts for 95% of all storage capacity worldwide.
Scaling means you buy 2 instead of one.
That is literally the opposite definition to scalable. Scalable things don’t require twice the resources for twice the capacity.
Buy two instead of one is exactly the worst case scalability you can have.
95% of the world grid storage capacity is pumped storage hydro and batteries will literally never be able to compete because water is the cheapest energy storage medium we could possibly have at grid scale. North America was the world leader on PSH in the 1970-2000 but now China is eating our lunch and our governments no longer have the ability to start real infrastructure projects because of crony capitalism.
I can’t believe we’re watching China become the world leader in renewables while we pretend like batteries are a smart way of storing GWhs of power because that’s the most profitable solution to the private sector.
Enjoy your water.
This website is like 10 years old from memory, well before grid-scale batteries were widespread (well they still aren’t in many countries).
Right, and I’m older than the Sony Walkman and that’s why I never heard about “internet”.
Use a gell cell lead acid battery (the kind that go in regular UPSs). No fire hazzard, ans bonus, they can survive freezing temperatures just fine if outdoors. Downside is replacing a cheap battery every 3 years.
I host my personal site at home with a 15-min battery backup. After that, I accept the downtime. Rarely happens and I haven’t had a single complaint when it does.
This is actually great!
Social media sites should do this. There’s never a good reason to be on [Insert Corporate Slop Social Media Website here] at 3AM.Never a good reason, like different timezones, different working/sleeping hours. Theres no better or worse hour for every single person.
It’s not like those major social media sites don’t have some kind of data center (or rent one) in every “major” (population wise) timezone they operate in. Your other arguments still hold true, but I think even then it would be better for all of us if those websites went down every now and then.
How dare you come here with your sound logic and reason that makes sense
