Listen, I know wars are horribly bad. I’m really sorry even asking such a question.
I’m Canadian. It seems that the fascists are set on military action against Greenland. I’m highly afraid that we’re next. So I’m hoping the following happens in order:
- No wars. Somehow, legally the fascist executive is stopped. This unfortunately seems unlikely…
- They get bogged down in a war elsewhere. This prevents them from coming after Canada. I know this is me being extremely selfish, but whatever.
- A civil war begins. No one has to worry about being invaded.
So my question is related to the third possibility. What could start a civil war? Could an invasion of Greenland and the following economic collapse (hopefully caused by the EU dropping US treasuries) be the spark?
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Yep! Eisenhower was a born-again Christian. He’s the reason the U.S. has “in god we trust” on everything.
Nixon totally worshipped him, too, as vice president.
There’s also a massive thread of white supremacy of course, which has been supported by the government for a decade now.
Though accurate, this analysis is an example of hindsight bias. It’s tempting (for me at least) to get angry at people such as the Democrats who were in power at the time for not doing more to stop it. But all we can really do now is use what we have learned to strengthen democracy… on our next turn around the wheel or whatever.
I don’t think we are anywhere near civil war. I believe we might be on the verge of state violence against protestors.
You’ll know we’re on the brink of civil war when there is open combat between a militia or national guard and the military and the military doesn’t instantly put them down.
A military coup might be slightly more likely or at least doable. But I’m not sure there is anyone left in charge who might lead that. Plus, it is by definition treason, and no soldier takes that lightly. And the resultant government might not be what one might want.
I hate to say this, but the US isn’t going to pull the rest of the world out of this mess. The way forward is through. Or wait for cholesterol to do its job and hold your breath for real elections this fall.
Trump is the mouth piece, the real ones working him are Steven Miller and Heritage Foundation. Though there is some hope that MAGA will essentially devolve into inter fighting without him because they’re so focused and centered on Trump. Vance has none of the wide range support.
Do you think state violence against protestors would be the precursor to civil war or at least an insurgency?
Americans are armed, right? Would state violence be met with silence?
I can’t say. It’s true that lots of us have guns, but the people who’ve been itching to use them are largely happy with the government. On the other hand, I was just seeing that Black Panthers are chilling in Philadelphia, heavily armed with serious firepower.
The thing is, if we get into a shootout with the military or ice, that will certainly lead to invocation of the insurgency act and that will effectively end democracy here. Most of us understand Trump would love a shooting war because essentially any opposition to him or his stormtroopers would be sedition.
He’s testing the waters even now. How much abuse and violence will protestors endure before they do fight back? We’re hanging on by a thread here. Clinging to the faint hope that somehow we will make it to the elections, and that they will result in curbing his power.
Those are some big ifs. And if we fail in November, most of us will look to 2028. I always wondered why the Germans let Hitler continue to do what he did. But now I it see it. If they moved too fast there would be resistance. But as long as they move slowly, people think it’s not much worse today than yesterday — that fighting against it would be terrible and we’d probably die because there aren’t enough of us.
No, I don’t think there will be a moment when we throw down Trump. His presidency will end in 2028 because Democrats win big this year, or he will be a wartime president and that will end only with his natural death and what happens next will be up to… I guess Vance.
But you should know, I’m not very good at predictions. I never thought Trump had a chance in either election. So take all of that with a huge grain of salt.
Agreed. The institutional resistance isn’t strong enough for a real civil war. You would have to see actual defection among military, government, or business leaders. I don’t see that happening.
An insurgency is far more likely but it’s unclear if it could succeed against the might of the US military and intelligence agencies.
I think neither of these is particularly desirable. If the regime wins they come out much stronger, emboldened and battle-hardened.
Instead, we should be doing everything we can to destroy the US economy. This will be much harder to respond to with overwhelming force, easier to enact in secret and in public, and have more or less the same effect as fighting a military conflict without the destruction of human life.
Seriously Canada, Europe and South America should band together and draw a red line.
First of all, a joint statement calling out the US for all the Nazi shit they’re pulling. Diplomacy does nothing but embolden Trump. Then, economic, political and possibly military consequences for their actions.
Start with export restrictions, trade with eachother but no longer with the US. Retract from intellectual property legislation like Trump retracted from climate agreements. Tax big tech. Send troops to the southern border in Canada and the northern border in Mexico, continue sending extra European troops on Greenland. Restrict travel.
This will piss off the US population and just maybe they will then feel the need to start a civil war. It’s also the only course of action the Trump regime fears. Economic consequences and a show of military strength on all their borders.
As soon as Greenland is occupied by the US military, Canada is essentially surrounded.
Yeah I honestly don’t get why any democratic countries trade with the us at this point. I think they are trying to disengage but they need to get systems in place and their own bad actor third is poisoning any efforts to do that.
I think we’re quite literally one step away. Currently, we have federal troops executing violence against state citizens and residents, in the form of ICE. Eventually, one of the states is going to deploy its own troops in response, to protect these folks, and we’ll have federal troops clashing against state troops. I think it’s a tough argument to say that’s NOT a civil war. Maybe depends how violent it ends up being.
A civil war begins. No one has to worry about being invaded.
Civil wars have the tendency to pull other countries in, too.
Especially since US troops are stationed all around the world.It feels close. Its clear from minneapolis that they are going to keep doubling down and its clear that people are not going to back down. Something has got to give.
The problem with a modern civil war in the USA is that there isn’t a line in the sand that can be drawn for who is with who. Ideological differences are everywhere so there’s no real way to establish a perimeter. California leans blue but if you look at the voting trends based on counties, the less populated counties trend red, the more populated one trend blue. Texas is red but a fair amount of their big cities are blue. It wouldn’t be a civil war but serious civil unrest with shootings, bombings, and guerilla style attacks. This wouldn’t be a stand up war, it’d be like Iraq in the early 2000’s.
What would the two sides be? The political class makes noises but is either completely in the bag or still in the bag just complaining about it sometimes. The capitalists with all the wealth and influence is making lots of money and being promised more. The small capitalists are gullible, reactionary strivers and graspers. And the middle and lower classes, who would have to be united in action and word by coherent political party of the people are totally atomized and incoherent, no such party exists, no nascent program could unite them.
Things are changing quickly, something that was impossible last year could become inevitable next year. But there aren’t sides to the civil war, it is a one-sided class war as it always has been.
On the insurrection act; there is a decent chance the military would refrain from engaging no matter what Trump demanded, they’ve planned on doing it before with jan 6 and just recently a big admiral made the news for quitting rather than complying with Trump’s insane murdering off the coast of Venezuela.
A group of people that are well informed and believe they could make change that benefits them without dying. You are unlikely to find even the first one.
Once life in the USA becomes uncomfortable for the majority of people (ie little to no access to food, water, electricity) thats when open war will start in the streets. Until then, there will just continue to be highly motivated agitators that pop up here and there, like assassination attempts and the like. They’ll become more and more common until the tipping point is reached, when the elite decide its time to completely withdraw from the rest of the country and take the food/water and electricity with them. If the USA doesn’t have elections in 2028, then id bet that the situation will be ripe for it by 2030
Trying to impose laws against super heroes.
And, I guess actual super heroes so they can fight about those laws.
