What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly.
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
“Was I brainwashed by Western propaganda?”
“No, only shithole commie countries like China have propaganda”
Do you folks not know that two things can be bad at the same time
Do you people get given a pre-opproved list of thought terminating cliches phrases? Because you always say that exact phrase, word for word, even when it doesn’t remotely apply to the conversation at hand, as is the case here.
Ok, just in case there’s a chance for you to be good faith. The above comment was a reply to a post about there being a lot of pro china and pro Russia propaganda being on Lemmy. It implied that the only way you can be against china and/or Russia is if you’ve fallen for western propaganda. This is a very clear fallacy, as being critical of china and/or Russia does not imply that you aren’t also critical of the west. There’s no conspiracy going on where everyone agreed to comment the same stuff, but if the same fallacy gets repeated over and over, multiple people will independently see it for what it is and call it out.
It implied
Ok, so you’re just putting words in their mouth.
This is a very clear fallacy,
Which they didn’t make, by your own admition. You just strawmanned them.
multiple people will independently see it for what it is and call it out.
Using the exact same stilted phrasing, word for word, every time?
You’re not buying any of this yourself, are you?
Wow, you sure stopped pretending you care about logical fallacies real quickly
Removed by mod
Funnily enough they almost always live in western democracies where they don’t need to fear reprisals for criticizing their government, something they wouldn’t dare do in China
bold assertion to make while pretty much every western ‘democracy’ is cracking down on people protesting for palestine
Removed by mod
Lol, OP is mad they got their post removed for claiming that Covid was a Chinese bioweapon.
Some good answers already here, but I can only answer for myself: I used to be that kind of leftist that was “Well I want socialism, but not like those scary foreign authoritarian countries. They’re doing it wrong! Or that’s not really socialism!” At some point after learning more history and talking with others online, I’ve softened my view on these places. Some of that is learning that some of what I knew about them was straight up misinformation, but some of it comes from a shift in perspective: These aren’t abstract ideals of countries. They’re real countries. With real people, real histories, real material conditions, real geopolitical relationships to deal with, etc. They’re doing something really difficult and it’s really easy to be an armchair quarterback while sitting cozy in the US where I don’t have to deal with any of their tough decisions or the consequences of them. Am I happy with them doing some authoritarian policies? No. But maybe they’re necessary to deal with the interference of the US? I don’t know for sure if that’s the best approach, but I don’t have to imagine the counterexample of what it looks like if you don’t take defensive measures, the US has helpfully provided a bunch in the form of all of the countries they’ve backed coups in for the crime of electing even a slightly leftist government. We could squabble about better ways to deal with this, but neither of us has the full context to have an educated discussion on the matter. Also for the genuinely bad stuff, I wouldn’t go as far as specifically supporting those things, but it’s worth putting them in perspective. You can’t talk about China online without someone bringing up Tienanmen Square, meanwhile the US has been a never-ending avalanche of evil in it’s short history, but you can talk about any number of things not related to politics in the US without a random leftist wandering into the discussion about the latest hollywood movie shouting the entire lyrics to “We Didn’t Start the Fire.” I mean we’re happy to bring all that stuff up if it’s in the right context, but people are so deranged about communist countries that the ONLY thing they can think to bring up in relation to them is their less savory moments that may or may not even be true/exaggerated.
It’s really hard to sort good information from bad about these places because there’s so much propaganda. I get that those other countries have an incentive to put out their own propaganda, but it’s hard for me to know what their reach is or what their motivations are or how much they are lying vs countering US misinfo. Meanwhile I KNOW the US has a fairly sophisticated system of propaganda spanning government agencies, media companies, NGOs, etc. I KNOW the US is motivated to prop up the interests of capitalists and try to stop other countries from pushing back against them. A lot of the bad shit and lies the US has done is just straight up declassified history. So I’m sorry if I’m a little skeptical about what the empire that’s made it it’s business to deny self-determination to countries around the world has to say about those countries.
As for Russia, I’m not specifically a supporter. Ever since the USSR collapsed they’ve been another capitalist, imperialist country. But in terms of scale they’re just not even remotely comparable to the US. They are at worst a regional power and outside of nukes can’t really threaten the US on the global stage. So when the US war machine starts saber rattling about them, I know what it’s for because I’ve seen it a million times before. We always need an external enemy to justify the massive amount of money we spend on the military and all of the capitalists who profit from it. Even if I think it would be good if someone in the region pushed back against Russian aggression, I think feeding the beast that is the US military industrial complex is a net negative for the world. Not that I really have any say in it. I can’t remember the last time my congressperson or senator asked if I wanted to give another couple billion dollars to their friends in the “defense” industry. And then of course there was all the hysteria about Russian interference in our elections from the Democrats. I don’t even care if they’re right or wrong. That’s besides the point. The function of the claims is what is more valuable to look at: The implication of “Russia is subverting our democracy by interfering in our elections.” is “We had a previously uncorrupted democracy before the Russians got involved. Please ignore how our own billionaires have bought out all of our elections.” It’s a way to shore up support for a failing system by externalizing it’s problems.
I just want to live in a world where we can all live dignified lives. US capitalists are the current greatest obstacle to that dream. I’d rather have imperfect allies against that than throw my lot in with the “Endless war, exploitation, and ecological collapse” team.
Well said.
lmfao hooman rights is when you do genocide and jail people protesting it
The US always needs a boogeyman to justify massive defense spending
Your instance is probably one of the few who still federated with lemmygrad and hexbear as you described both these instances to a T. You can either block these instances or create an account with one of the numerous instances that have defederated from these absurd groups.
And lemmy.ml - as evidenced by the comments here.
You’re welcome to leave if you just want yet another pro-West nationalist circle jerk
Removed by mod
Mate, you are in a .ml com
Removed by mod
This person supports Israel’s genocide of Gaza, btw.
Removed by mod
Got to keep that echo chamber sealed
Funny you say that considering hexbear had themselves sealed off from everyone else for several years.
I have no issue with people holding opposing viewpoints or perspectives, but I do have an issue with people acting as little more than mouthpieces for some authoritarian politicians. I see little difference between them and the MAGA sycophants who talk about the “great” things Donald Trump is doing.
Funny you say that considering hexbear had themselves sealed off from everyone else for several years.
No, they didn’t.
I have no issue with people holding opposing viewpoints or perspectives, but I do have an issue with people acting as little more than mouthpieces for some authoritarian politicians. I see little difference between them and the MAGA sycophants who talk about the “great” things Donald Trump is doing.
So you do actually have issues with opposing viewpoints.
deleted by creator
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly. Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Not sure I agree with your claim that the West have better human rights. They do more anti-privacy stuff than the rest of the world combined, and are starving 2 million people. The USA deprives the most people of their freedom: 1.9 million I’m seeing, and 99% of them never had a trial.
Liberals hear criticism of western countries and respond, “They’re not perfect. They have their little foibles.” Liberals hear criticism of other countries and think they’re pure evil.
deleted by creator
That’s only true if you’ve if you’ve seen through the lies that our governments, corporate media, and regime change NGOs told us.
deleted by creator
The people claiming that China is exterminating Muslims literally do say that the Gaza genocide is fake.
This is only true if you are denying that china putting people into camps due to their ethnicity and religion
I am indeed
This is only true if you are denying that china putting people into camps due to their ethnicity and religion.
No, even if those claims were true (and they’re not), the US would still have more people imprisoned.
Ml was always pro china pro russia nothing new. I am more worried about the rise of zionism apologists
China has human rights. E.G. Trans people get gender affirming healthcare, jobs, food, and housing. Something that the U.S. does not guarantee and is actively trying to ban transgender affirming care. One of the most famous people in China is Jin Xing a trans woman. The Chinese government does not restrict transgender people in the same way that the UK and the U.S. does. Largely it is social stigma that remains in China, which will and has been changing over time.
Tbh in China it varies a LOT by region how you’ll be treated socially. There’s some places where trans people have dedicated medical centers and others where they’ll be persecuted. It’s a failure of uneven development they’re trying to fix. The govt there recently banned the sale of hormones online which really complicated things for trans women.
The govt there recently banned the sale of hormones online which really complicated things for trans women.
That’s if you don’t have a prescription, while the process is some what tedious to get a prescription people were giving themselves doses far above what is recommended so it was out of concern for safety not a malicious intent unlike what we see in Western countries. I would like to see China do informed consent for HRT and lift some of the barriers though.
As far as the rural v urban divide, it is a tale as old as time, not something unique to China, but at least they are doing something about it.
You can get hormones by eating gonads (eg ovaries, uterus, testes), that’s part of how those meds are made. So it won’t stop people from getting them, it just means their doses will be unpredictable.
What’s your point?
I agree that treatment seems a non issue, but from what I’ve seen the social stigma is incredibly significant. I forget their handle, but there was a trans man on rednote that had alot to say about the stigma in his part of china. That isn’t to say the US is any better though.
That’s Theo and his rednote videos are very insightful. There probably could be better education surrounding trans people done in China to help reduce the stigma, but that is the case in nearly every country. I think as people continue to be open and vulnerable about what it means to be transgender and people become more exposed to transgender people that social stigma will change. It is part of why I live openly and honestly as a trans person. Every generation of queer folk has paved the way for the rest of us.
Ah thank you for the name drop! And yeah, I hope things improve!
And the situation with the uigurs?
China’s claim is that anything that is being done is being done to combat islamic fundamentalist groups/extremists. This seems to be backed up by international support from Muslim countries.
Genocide claims were always unfounded. However, no matter how nice the guided tours of reeducation facilities look, they are still in effect prisons, and we of course don’t know about the things that we aren’t being shown.
If your position on the topic is anything more than “They may or may not be treated that good”, you have information that nobody else has.
There are prisons, of course. Every country has them. And some terrorists did get prosecuted and imprisoned. They weren’t hypothetical terrorists. Locals were getting stabbed, shot, run over, and bombed by them. So of course any non-radicalized Uyghur—which were the vast majority—wanted the terrorism to stop as much as anyone else, just as there were scarcely any US Muslims cheering as the Twin Towers fell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Chronology_of_major_events
But the job training facilities weren’t/aren’t prisons. Those who didn’t live near the schools traveled in for the week, received room & board, and went back home on weekends.
I appreciate your correction Davel. I’ve seen some of your posts/comments in the past and they have always been informative on this topic.
I understand western notions of prisons paint ugly pictures of grey walls and metal bars so if they are given that much autonomy during the process, maybe that term was misleading and I apologize.
I do take issue with the hypothetical terrorist rebuttal though, because the same thing can be applied to the US policies. Yes, we did have terrorist attacks done against us. That doesn’t mean that every person we locked up as a terrorist was one.
You might have the trust that China is telling the truth and isn’t doing something similar, that’s a valid enough position to have. Im still not personally convinced.
Yes, we did have terrorist attacks done against us. That doesn’t mean that every person we locked up as a terrorist was one.
I’m sure some mistakes were made because no system will ever be perfect, but socialist states are fundamentally different from a capitalist, imperialist, globally hegemonic state. Without evidence, there’s no reason to assume that China’s handling of it was analogous to ours.
I have disagreements that China is currently socialist, but that is outside the scope of the original discussion.
Most Western Marxists do disagree, as I also used to.
Cultural genocide is still genocide. You can get into if it’s to combat extremism as a separate statement.
Cultural genocide is still genocide.
Yes, by some laws/conventions/definitions of genocide it is, but China isn’t even doing that. Previously. Previously.
What about it? Say what you mean.
The genocide of them that ML refuses to acknowledge.
We absolutely do refuse to acknowledge a thing that never happened, that the US/CIA/NED made up after their “color revolution” attempt failed.
Alright, I expect some evidence of that claim. Please no CIA sources, I’d like to save us some time.
“please give me evidence” “only sources I like”. I’m not wasting my time sourcing things that you will deny.
“uigurs”
Yea I couldn’t spell it and autocorrect wasn’t about to help me.
Short answer: Many people support those governments critically or uncritically for various reasons.
Long answer:
Russia: Some people who oppose US hegemony support Russia as probably the most effective anti-US actor globally - I mean look at what they’ve managed (in part) to do to the US government over the last 10 years or so. They may also be sympathetic to Russian anti-NATO sentiment. People who support China may also critically support Russia since they are a strategic ally of China. Some people just full-throatedly support Russia uncritically - I don’t know why they’re quite so enthusiastic, but most others who have pro-Russian sentiment are still critical of Russia, but support them as a major power capable of attacking US hegemony.
China: China is the most successful communist country to have ever existed. Many left-leaning people may support China to varying degrees because they are an Actually Existing Socialist country and because their model of Communism with Chinese Characteristics seems to work quite well for them. Due to the West (broadly) attacking Socialist governments in the name of Liberalism & becoming increasingly more fascistic, China could be an important bulwark against fascism. Many people support China uncritically - they genuinely like the Chinese system of government and want their governments to be more like China’s. Other people critically support China - they believe China’s government is problematic in some way(s), but support it anyway as a bastion of socialism and a significant challenger to US economic & political hegemony.
As for support for the governments as opposed to the people: We kind of have to talk about these things at the country level, since governments are the (imperfect) embodiments of political ideologies and collectively act on behalf of the people within their borders, and “the people” aren’t monolithic. We often treat countries as avatars of political ideologies which is inaccurate but is an abstraction that unfortunately often leads to an oversimplification of the ideologies behind & effects of those governments’ actions while allowing us to create a comprehensible narrative.
I saw China take COVID seriously while I was marched off to work to die because my job was “essential” - the US, EU, Canada, it was basically every Western country except New Zealand (which is an island and basically became a bunker nation for billionaires and shouldn’t really count)
I became pro-China after that.
The best is once covid was declared over usa got tons of laws forcing the removal of what little protections were done.
were the party if fiscal responsibility but all that money you spent needs to get burned because screw any germ protections being kept on our watch
Well germ theory is woke! Didn’t you know?
What I learned from covid is a lot of US states had laws criminalizing wearing any kind of mask in public because it’s considered “suspicious” or “threatening” or something, and most states are now reinstating those laws post covid.
Like what the actual fuck?
Also, when Chinese covid lockdowns were perceived as too restrictive and went on for too long, Chinese citizens in many different cities started protesting. Did the evil commie government (A) reenact the Tiananmen Square massacre to silence all opposition or (B) listen to the people and actually drop most of the restrictions? Bet most westoids will pick the wrong answer.
Also, loosening of the lockdowns quickly led to more victims than the initial phase of pandemic. Malcontents were lucky that govt did not caved in sooner.
It’s legitimately insane how people look at the US’s dogshit excuse for a pandemic response and think other countries were too restrictive, when in reality even those that were actually trying like China was still weren’t restrictive enough.
My state of Victoria in Australia had one of the longest lockdowns in the world. As someone with an immuno compromised dad I was supportive of it. However the state is now in a lot of debt and having to cut public servants and services.
States without currency sovereignity or trade sovereignity probably can’t respond to pandemics without indebting themselves. If they can’t print money and can’t marshal the forces of production they’re basically reliant on market forces, and capital is happy to punish them for daring to get in the way of profits.
Related, COVID also proved to me that the EU is not a progressive historical force. It similarly turns sovereign nations into dependent states without currency sovereignity or trade sovereignity.
I promise you, they do not actually have to cut public services.
They have to recoup the ~$50 billion spent/invested on covid public health and financial support somehow. Yet they keep digging deeper into the $200 billion suburban rail link.
Removed by mod
I think the fact that the US had a 9/11 every day for so long is actually a lot more horrifying than people being forced into screening to leave apartment complexes (which is what you’re referring to when you sensationally accuse them of “nailing doors shut”).
Being marched to my death was horrifying.
Stopping a pandemic means sacrificing some freedom of movement. The fact that China was willing to sacrifice productivity to save lives convinced me that politics are in command and, despite their market reforms, they remain committed to Marxism.
terrorized its own population
The authorities would literally nail your door shut from the outside if one person in your city block was tested positively and many people almost starved in their flats during these absolute lockdowns.
These are some yeonmi park level claims.
This post got brigaded; you know, that thing that the very same people accuse us of 📽
https://sh.itjust.works/post/44029753
Some of them even broke out their alt accounts, which they use exclusively for vote-spamming. One of them has a two year old account that’s never made a single post or comment. We ban those.
CW gross ideation about /u/davel:
spoiler
these people are seriously unwell, absolute nazi bar.
I came across one of them saying I was a degenerate roach in another thread there:
The stormfront / kiwifarms strategy seems to be to set up shop anywhere that won’t ban them, and lets them doxx whoever they want. And there are A LOT of lemmy servers that won’t take action and ban them.
The “Every Accusation a Confession” rule of thumb strikes again.
Thank you for staying on top of this kind of shit and exposing them when necessary.
What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
🌍🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀 Always has been. https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Lemmy#History
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
The EU is sometimes worse than China and some parts of the US are often worse than Russia. The US (both parties) and the EU have been aiding & abetting a genocide in Palestine.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
It’s not organized and it’s not disinformation. Those are coming from inside the house.
deleted by creator
a large part of the population lives in poverty, has terrible work conditions,
Just don’t count anyone outside the empire as human and your argument makes sense.
and suffers from persecutions for various reasons to a level that is way above the worst you can get in the EU (and probably the US too).
.
The position of Germany on pro-Palestine activism is insufferable, that’s true, but the EU has 26 other members.
This is the recent one from the UK. It can be done for all 26 others easily too.
Also constantly bringing back colonialism as an argument doesn’t make much sense.
Because people in Africa and the Middle East aren’t still being colonized by the West?
Anyway, do you want to compare it with China and Russia that notoriously love who manifest ideas contrary to the regime’s views?
Pray tell what happened to Jullian Assange? Why the entire Western media gleefully lying about the genocide in Gaza? Propaganda on Western levels is unheard of worldwide.
deleted by creator
The US persecuted Assange, not the EU. The rest was pure politics, because no country would cause a diplomatic incident over Assange.
So the EU obeys the US which is authoritarian?
What are you talking about? There is a constant coverage on Gaza even with updates of the kids killed by Israel.
https://lemmy.ml/c/ManufacturingConsent
Pray tell if you believe Hamas raped anyone on October 7 by the way.
Only Germany has a stronger stance on Israel, probably due to the large presence of Jews in the country.
You are misinformed. There hasn’t been a large Jewish population in Germany since the Holocaust, and attributing Germany’s support for Israel to an imagined one sounds, frankly, a bit antisemitic.
There are many EU countries with more Jews per capita than Germany. Less than 0.2% of Germany’s population is Jewish, and less than 1% of Jews in the world live in Germany. 60% of Jews in Germany live in a single city (Berlin). Over 80% speak Russian, having immigrated there from former soviet states.
German politicians often say that, due to the Holocaust, support for Israel’s security is part of Germany’s “reason of state”; they tend to avoid discussing the Zionist view that Jews choosing to live in Germany today should also really move to Israel.
The West is guilty of regime changes in some places, that’s true,
Man, you sure love going “yes that’s true and I have no counter point, but I’m going to declare that it doesn’t count”
What are you talking about? There is a constant coverage on Gaza even with updates of the kids killed by Israel.
What do you believe the current death count in Gaza is?
Removed by mod
The position of Germany on pro-Palestine activism is insufferable, that’s true, but the EU has 26 other members.
You know, the argument of “they aren’t repressive, so long as you just ignore all the ways that they are!” applies just as much to China. You’re purely begging the question. I like that you even got it wrong which fucking country it was.
While the support to Israel is undeniable and the EU members supported the US in unnecessary wars multiple times, it’s hard to read “the EU is sometimes worse than China” without questioning what you are talking about.
“While it’s true that EU has and continues to do things far worse than anything China has done, how can you possibly say that the EU is sometimes worse than China!”
Its impossible to read this without coming to conclusion that you fundamentally don’t consider non-westerners human, except when they can be used as a cudgel against their enemies. Imagine trying to claim that we should consider China’s treatment of Muslims worse than the countries currently engaging in a modern Holocaust against Muslims.
And Tiananmen Square was forty years ago. If you actually listened all of the things that the EU has done since then that were as bad or worse, you would be writing a novel. You would need to have a Tiananmen square massacre every day for a decade just to equal the amount of people the West killed in Iraq alone.
Removed by mod
What a fucking vile thing to say. In over a decade of genocide accusations against China, The West hasn’t been able to produce a single example of even one Uyghur being killed, even though Xinjiang is perfectly accessible and anyone can go there to find perfectly normal cities. Even Wikipedia had to rename it’s “Uyghur Genocide” page because they couldn’t actually find enough evidence.
Meanwhile, Gaza is a closed off death camp where journalists are being shot on sight, with the full support of both the institutions and individuals who are making the Uyghur genocide accusations in the first place. None the less, we see daily videos of mass death, with even western estimates for total dead in the hundreds of thousands after less than two years.
You don’t care about Muslim lives, they are not human to you, you only care about them as a cudgel against the West’s enemies. This is made undeniably clear by the fact that you try to claim China killing zero Muslims in “definitely worse” than the West (and it is the whole West) exterminating an entire nation of two million people.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Even if you criticise based on support of foreign wars and quality of life the EU and us still come out better than China and russia.
No, they come out much worse. Oh right, you don’t consider non-westerners to be human.
They support some fucking crazy regimes
Imagine how completely shameless and dishonest to try and make this claim as a contrast to the EU and USA.
most of them still live far below the EU and us in standard of living.
And that’s what matters, in the end. Virtue is defined by how much wealth you can extract out of the rest of the world for the benifit of your own country. Wealth is the mark of virtue. Rich countries are good, poor countries are bad.
You have the politics of a nineteenth century Englishman.
Removed by mod
You mean you tried to respond but realized you didn’t actually have anything to respond with, so you’re going to start trolling.
There is nothing of substance to respond to even if I wanted. All you’ve done is disagree and I’m not wasting my time going through history with a bot who thinks tiananmen square was just a man standing in front of a tank or thinks NATO “forced” Russia to invade Ukraine. So yeah, enjoy this thread it was made for you.
There is nothing of substance to respond to even if I wanted.
There’s plenty of substance, you just can’t actually refute it so you’re going to pretend it’s not there. You’ve already decided as a matter of faith that you are right about anything, so any argument that might suggest otherwise has to be ignored.
bot who thinks tiananmen square was just a man standing in front of a tank hinks NATO “forced” Russia to invade Ukraine.
Oh, we’re just pulling completely baseless strawmen out of our assholes then? Well why should I waste my time with you when you’re a supporter of Adolf Hitler who thinks the Holocaust was a good thing?
So yeah, enjoy this thread it was made for you.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
Removed by mod
Yeah, how dare those tankies value the lives of non-westerners as if they were human
Oh so you’re valuing the lives of the Uyghurs and other minorities in concentration camps. You’re really valuing the millions of Russian soldiers that die fighting a war of aggression. You value so highly all the innocent people in Gulags which are basically concentration camps too. I see now how highly you value those people, my bad.
Oh so you’re valuing the lives of the Uyghurs and other minorities in concentration camps.
In over a decade of genocide accusations against China, The West hasn’t been able to produce a single example of even one Uyghur being killed, even though Xinjiang is perfectly accessible and anyone can go there to find perfectly normal cities. Even Wikipedia had to rename it’s “Uyghur Genocide” page because they couldn’t actually find enough evidence.
Meanwhile, Gaza is a closed off death camp where journalists are being shot on sight, with the full support of both the institutions and individuals who are making the Uyghur genocide accusations in the first place. None the less, we see daily videos of mass death, with even western estimates for total dead in the hundreds of thousands after less than two years.
You don’t care about Muslim lives, they are not human to you, you only care about them as a cudgel against the West’s enemies. This is made undeniably clear by the fact that you try to claim China killing zero Muslims is comparable to the West exterminating an entire nation.
You’re really valuing the millions of Russian soldiers that die fighting a war of aggression.
Millions? You’re just pulling make believe numbers out of your ass now, unlike the actually confirmed millions killed in Western Wars of aggression. And it’s because non-western lives aren’t actually real to you; thousands, millions, tens of millions, whatever - it’s all just fictional to you, like the size of armies in fantasy books.
You value so highly all the innocent people in Gulags
What the fuck are you talking about? Please tell me you’re not trying to have a take on this while being so monumentally ignorant of even the most basic facts of the matter.
The West hasn’t been able to produce a single example of even one Uyghur being killed
What’s happening to them is worse than getting killed.
even though Xinjiang is perfectly accessible and anyone can go there to find perfectly normal cities
Ok, you’re completely delusional, should have figured from the start. Please watch some footage of journalists that actually went there.
All your blathering about Palestine is nice whataboutism, but nothing more. I’m strongly opposed to the Israeli government as well, not that it matters in this discussion. It’s possible to have a more nuanced view than “east good, west bad” even though that might be too difficult for you to comprehend.
Millions?
Millions is probably incorrect indeed, the estimate is over 1 million. What does it matter though? The one who doesn’t seem to care about their lives (apart from Putin, obviously) is you, because every single one is one too many.
What the fuck are you talking about? Please tell me you’re not trying to have a take on this while being so monumentally ignorant of even the most basic facts of the matter.
I’m talking about innocent people being held in Gulags and in many cases dying there. Reading comprehension is difficult for you it seems. I’m curious though, do you think Gulags are not real or that only guilty people are sent there? Even if they were guilty, do you think a civilised nation should have concentration camps?
question, why do you think the rest of us should believe the work of the German guy ‘on a mission from god’ against China and communism when he doesn’t even speak the language.
also why can’t they find another person to research this if it’s really as serious as you say lmao
What’s happening to them is worse than getting killed.
What a vile little worm you are. And of course, because you don’t actually consider them human, you don’t care if they actually agree with this; you’re not actually going to try present the argument that the Uyghurs themselves would, if you went to Xinjiang and asked them, would prefer to be in Gaza. You’re just going to make the declaration for them, because you need to to excuse the holocaust going on in Gaza.
Ok, you’re completely delusional, should have figured from the start. Please watch some footage of journalists that actually went there.
Please, present this footage that shows that the people of Xinjiang are worse off than the people in Gaza…
All your blathering about Palestine is nice whataboutism, but nothing more.
You can’t actually defend the idea that the West’s crimes aren’t as bad as China, so you’re just going to declare that it’s “not allowed” to even mention the West’s crimes. Even you realise your position is untenable if people actually bring up counter points, so you’re going to pretend that some how it’s “cheating” for them to do so.
I’m strongly opposed to the Israeli government as well, not that it matters in this discussion.
Of course it fucking matters. What the fuck are you on about?
It’s possible to have a more nuanced view than “east good, west bad” even though that might be too difficult for you to comprehend.
You’re just assuming that, because you are only capable of seeing it in terms of Good Guys and Bad Guys, then I must be too, just in the other direction. This is a lazy strawman doesn’t actually follow from anything that was said.
Millions is probably incorrect indeed
Not incorrect: a lie that you told.
the estimate is over 1 million.
“The estimate”? From who?
What does it matter though?
Yeah, what does it matter? It’s not like theyre real humans with lives or anything. because non-western lives aren’t actually real to you; thousands, millions, tens of millions, whatever - it’s all just fictional to you, like the size of armies in fantasy books.
The one who doesn’t seem to care about their live is you, because every single one is one too many.
Tell me again how every Muslim in Xinjiang would be better off dead, how the genocide in Gaza is just prattle and whataboutism, and how numbers of dead don’t matter. Funny how “every single one is to many” doesn’t apply to the West, they can kill by the million and you’ll forgive them.
I’m talking about innocent people being held in Gulags and in many cases dying there. Reading comprehension is difficult for you it seems. I’m curious though, do you think Gulags are not real or that only guilty people are sent there? Even if they were guilty, do you think a civilised nation should have concentration camps?
Oh my God… Please tell me this is a bit.
You were better off not responding lol
deleted by creator
I don’t block anyone, there needs to be a voice of reason countering these misguided soulds, so thanks for doing your part.
deleted by creator
There has been but if western people can create their own echo chambers, why not others?
Well, if pro-US stuff is on youtube, reddit, facebook, twitter, discord, matrix, teams, bit-chute, odysee,
rumble, locals, whatsapp, signal, twitch, netflix,
while the US is falling apart and China is already the most powerful nation in the world and further rising quickly,
where would you expect to find pro-China and pro-Russia stuff?
