- cross-posted to:
- antifascism@midwest.social
- cross-posted to:
- antifascism@midwest.social
Cross-posted from “Nina going off today” by @seahorse@midwest.social in !antifascism@midwest.social
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I was so, so very close to directly calling jordanlund a shitlib after it was almost certainly him who mod deleted my comment, in my own thread, in .world, stating that, speaking from a historical standpoint, the only thing that stops fascists is bullets in their brains.
He of course interpreted that as ‘advocating violence’, because … he is a shitlib.
But instead, I composed myself and wrote a more eloquent explanation as to why my comment had been deleted… and, so far, at least that response hasn’t been deleted.
Why not post to power tripping bastards?
Because we already know the .world mod/admin team is a bunch of shit lib colloborators from how they acted when Luigi was framed for shooting some asshole who murdered tens of thousands of people by overseeing the denial of their healthcare.
Sorry to rant but goddamnit am I on the exact same wavelength as this post right now.
Jordan, if you read this, go fuck yourself and keep telling yourself Warren was a better choice than Bernie, you slimy rat fuck.
I used to defend JordanLund when people called him a Zionist
After his recent actions banning anti-zionist voices on WorldNews, banning Independent media that reports on the genocide, and banning pro-palestinian emancipatory slogans, it’s overwhelmingly obvious he is at the very least a Zionist Sympathizer
He’s also terribly reactionary on many social issues
IMHO he is a glowie.
An informant, a plant.
A willing collaborator with and for fascists, potentially literally paid to do so, in either a direct or indirect manner.
I can’t prove it, but he is all of the (please excuse the contextual irony) red flags for such a person just all bundled together at once.
Spends too much goddamned time moderating… is a literal balding neck beard with a shitty hat… how does this asshole pay his bills?
No badjacketing in here
Welp, didn’t realize/remember there was a rule against that, but at least your explanation as it stands still lets people roughly know what I said.
I find it concerning when anyone spends that much time online, I already feel like I do lol
Being terminally online is terrible for mental health, and I think being devoid of actual people IRL makes ppl more reactionary
saying the only thing that stops fascists is bullets in their brains
So, first off, banning this as violence suggests stopping fascists is generally desirable; a position i don’t think he shares.
Second: that’s blatantly untrue. They’re not, like, werewolves. Putting aside how that whole myth is an allegory for the abuse cycle. There’s lots of places shooting them would work, depending on the bullet and availability of medical care. Plus, things other than bullets that worked. There’s ectensive research by zukov et al suggesting it can be done with an artillery shell, and anecdotes from research in the pacific islands backing the ‘sharp stick’ hypothesis.
So maybe you’re the real fascist.
How do we know they aren’t vampires? They cover their faces when inside and protect themselves from sunlight by wearing full military gear outside.
I hereby repent before the supreme council of enlightened liberals for unintentionally using language which could possibly be interpreted as invoking an allegory which could possibly be interpreted as me advocating for, or suggesting the use, or evoking imagery of violence against furries, who are valid members of society that have for too long been unjustly forced out of public life.
I thus willingly submit myself to be bound inside the no holds barred yiff pit for a duration not exceeding 24 hrs, whereby my latent fascist tendencies will be expunged from me, and I shall emerge, born again, as a more tolerant member of society.
Or at least a fluffier one.
Aroooo!!!
(ok thats about as much of this bit as I csn handle, hahah)
Muh brotha!
God, the way this has aged
Like a lot from Nina, it has aged like fine spice melange
I hate being that cringe guy in the comments posting FD quotes, but this one is such a banger
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress
FD is FDR I guess?
Frederick Douglass
Never heard of them
Frederick Douglass was born into slavery 1818, in Maryland. He escaped at age twenty, and went on to became a prolific author, public speaker, and political activist, in the fight to abolish slavery.
In the USA, humans were enslaved. Abolitionists, such as Frederick Douglass, resisted the practice of slavery. There are many important abolitionist figures. I’m fond of John Brown.
Guess they are one of the kind of people you know if you are from that particular county, but if you are you do in fact know who they were.
They’ve never heard of you either
FD Signifier, actually ☝🏼
There’s a much better reason to not be violent: So that you can get more people onto the streets. Figures that most people don’t fancy dodging burning trash cans and you want everybody on the streets, not just your polycule. People need to feel like they’re safe at the protest, the only danger there is is coming from the state.
I know, right? These fuvking anachronistic world war mashup re-enacters, fucking tear gassing and shooting random people as they get so mean towards the cops!
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That’s a nice argument when the cops are not yet shooting random passerbys with rubber bullets and teargas. People don’t stay home because they’re afraid of other protestors.
I actually did. I’ve got an ex girlfriend i really don’t want to run into.
I hope you’re not sincerely avoiding protests because of an ex. I can’t laugh about exes and bad sex when I live in fear every day that ICE might snatch my partner off the street.
It’s not a bad joke on its own, it’s just in poor taste considering the state of things. The fear of Trump’s dictatorship far outweighs the fear of running into even my most abusive ex.
in poor taste
So, whether or not this is a bit¹: the potential harm from edgy jokes is the same as the harm from dystopian fiction warning us about bad things that could happen. The potential for harm is that dipshits with zero self awareness and less media literacy will just blindly copy the thing. Like how siliconbvalley billionaires have tried to do almost literally every part of ‘snow crash’.
If my character in the bit is shitty and not someone you would want to be at any point, or I’m on a server defederated from beehaw and world; this danger is mitigated.
And for those who have actually been through shit, your criticism here comes off as privileged, colonizing, and completely misunderstanding what humor is, because you’ve never had a use for it. It comes off as ‘if i laugh at myself i am lesser, because the only way i know how to laugh is by sorting groups and affirming my group’s position at the top’. And thats a really bad fucking look. Im not saying shut up; im saying read up on the topic.
¹just for you; I’m never gonna tell now.
There’s a massive fucking vibe difference between a crowd taking cover behind whatever is at hand and one setting fire to shit and throwing back stones is all I’m saying. Be the former vibe. Stones aren’t going to stop them. Assault rifles and tanks wouldn’t stop them. Pining for escalation hands them excuses on a platter for no strategic gain whatsoever, it’s pissing in the wind. The only law you should be breaking is refusing to follow a dispersal order, or at least take your sweet time with it, everything else is fedposting.
The only law you should be breaking is refusing to follow a dispersal order
And that’s the one they point to as an excuse to start shooting, you shitlib.
They don’t need an excuse. They will escalate it long before anyone in the street does. It’s also wild to me that ‘throwing stones’ is somehow seen as more violent than literal fucking munitions and chemical weapons. “Just stand there and let them shoot at you” is quite a take from someone who has clearly never been shot at by fascists in riot gear.
If this were an ordinary liberal riot guard we might be able to count on deescalation, but as libs have so been eager to point out when votemaxxing online, this isn’t an ordinary liberal riot guard. Either bend over and spread for the next phase of american fascist policing or shut the fuck up about how people are choosing to resist it. Communities are fighting against unaccountable and un-identifiable gestapo pigs blackbagging innocent children - don’t concern troll us about deescalation.
They don’t need an excuse.
To shoot? No. To justify themselves in the media, in the public eye? Yes.
It’s also wild to me that ‘throwing stones’ is somehow seen as more violent than literal fucking munitions and chemical weapons.
It’s not. That’s as much a shitlib take as “police violence isn’t violence because it’s state violence”.
But it’s the perception that exists among the population, you’re not going to change it by throwing stones.
Communities are fighting against unaccountable and un-identifiable gestapo pigs blackbagging innocent children
You know what people did to protect Jews from the Gestapo? Hide them. You can’t protect them by throwing stones for the simple reason that police dgaf when they’re hit by stones, they’ll just blackbag you alongside.
Look there’s exactly one thing I’m saying here: Act strategically. I’m not arguing against violence because it’s evil – at most, violence is unaesthetic. I’m arguing against it because, unless you start an actual insurrection with plans to take on and take out the military, it’s ineffective. Just because your pigs are worse than what we’re dealing with over here doesn’t mean that lashing out at them suddenly becomes good praxis. You’re there to have an effect, not to blow off steam.
To justify themselves in the media, in the public eye? Yes.
No they don’t. Just look at how often they use footage from completely unrelated events in their coverage. Anyone with even a slight predilection against protestors or a law enforcement bias will accept any willful misrepresentation as ‘aesthetic’ and condemn the whole group regardless.
But it’s the perception that exists among the population, you’re not going to change it by throwing stones.
Nothing the protestors actually do will move the needle - it’s the extreme overreaction of the fed that will.
You know what people did to protect Jews from the Gestapo? Hide them.
Only after the Nazis had actually banned extra-party protests and clamped down on all opposition, and only after they had already carted away several million jews and political opponents off to concentration camps. You want to wait that long do something? Be my guest.
I’m arguing against it because, unless you start an actual insurrection with plans to take on and take out the military, it’s ineffective.
The goal of most rebellions isn’t to take control of the reigns of power - the goal is to make it so costly to suppress that the state is forced to cut their loss, or else risk the resistance spreading. There is no version of resisting a fascist movement in the US that involves armed militias overpowering federal forces. Liberals are desperate to maintain the illusion of democracy by simply resisting at the fringes - if they don’t piss Trump off too much, then maybe there will still be enough democracy left for them to vote him away without any real conflict! What a wonderful fantasy that is.
Liberals need to pick a lane - either trump is a dictator who must be removed before he solidifies his hold on power, or we need to conduct ourselves until the midterms so that we can vote our way out. It can’t be both.
You want to wait that long do something? Be my guest.
Who said anything about waiting? Stop posting and organise that shit. Don’t look at me I’m on the other side of the Atlantic.
Nothing the protestors actually do will move the needle - it’s the extreme overreaction of the fed that will.
Please look up opinion polling after the Kent State Massacre: It took years for public opinion to shift away from “the National Guard did nothing wrong”. For what you say to occur the overreaction has to not just be extreme, it also has to be obvious – like the Aussie journalist which got shot, that’s a good video. Things don’t become more obviously an overreaction when cars are burning and shopfronts are deglassed.
Liberals need to pick a lane - either trump is a dictator who must be removed before he solidifies his hold on power, or we need to conduct ourselves until the midterms so that we can vote our way out.
I wouldn’t argue for either. Both are unrealistic for various reasons and the latter isn’t a good in itself. What you want to do is obstruct the fuck out the feds so they fall on their face, that’s best done on a level of state and lower administrations. California isn’t cooperating with ICE so make sure to have the state’s back. Yes, I, an anarchist is saying “have the state’s back”, fascism is too large a threat to risk over feelings of disgust regarding liberal democracy. Last thing you want is the Governor seeing himself in a situation where he has to ask the feds to intervene to keep (a semblance of) order instead of being able to say “fuck off feds we got this”.
Stop posting and organise that shit.
Most of us do both.
For what you say to occur the overreaction has to not just be extreme, it also has to be obvious – like the Aussie journalist which got shot, that’s a good video.
Yup, and with any luck Trump will continue with the lack of subtlety.
Things don’t become more obviously an overreaction when cars are burning and shopfronts are deglassed.
Those things happen every day in the US. Hell, some sports fans will flip cars after a moderately good football game. Corporatized media will find footage of those things regardless of what the actual protestors are doing, and implicate them with it. Even when counterprotestors are actually assaulting peaceful protestors, Fox news and their many subsidiary channels will find the one shot with an angry exchange that paints the picture and use it to implicate the entire movement. And when they do, liberals will be right there to wag their fingers.
The good news is that Trump is such a dipshit that he’ll send in fucking tanks for just about any goddamned reason, and those are really fucking hard to hide and even harder to justify with a few broken windows and lots of unarmed protestors.
What you want to do is obstruct the fuck out the feds so they fall on their face, that’s best done on a level of state and lower administrations
Yea, this is what i’m referring to by saying ‘middling around the fringes’. There is no amount of legalese that will slow down an actual authoritarian. You can’t run around screaming that he’s going to fucking end democracy and then strategize on how to bury him in legal threats. Either he’s a dictator or he can be obstructed by judicial paperwork. You can’t have a dictator that politely complies with the judiciary, that’s what makes them a dictator.
This is how liberals end up collaborating with fascists: they are so uncomfortable with extralegal resistance that they delude themselves into a belief that working within the structures that are actively being dismantled is the ‘only realistic way’ to resist against it. What happens when we get to the ‘outlawing of rival political parties’ part of fascism? We’ve already crossed over the ‘no due process for criminals’ line, how many more core democratic foundations do we have to lose before it’s game over?
Not everyone can or should be in black bloc sabotaging ICE vehicles, but pretending as if the usual checks and balances are still functioning is willful ignorance.
They’re already shooting.
People usually only remember part of Thomas Jefferson’s quote: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants.”
The full thing goes “The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
This is class warfare. We all need to start getting used to the fact that many of us patriots are going to die fighting this fascist machine.
Something i have brought up before as an example is when i was in elementary school and high school, i was bullied very very badly. They would say horrific things and beat me up. This happened for almost 10 years. Everyone always told me “ignore them. Be the bigger person.”, “if you hit them, you are just as bad.”, “if you ignore them, they will stop.”, “have you asked them to stop bullying you?”.
Teachers would constantly make excuses and ignore the bullies. Because if they said something about it, the whole class would lie and say i did something to deserve it. I never did anything because i was terrified.
One day i got jumped again after school by one of them and i snapped. I beat the everliving fuck out of him. The last punch was straight to the throat and he struggled to breath.
Not a single person in the class bullied me ever again. Not a single word was said to me from that day on.
My point is that asking bullies and fascists nicely to stop, does not work. They are not playing according to the rules. We are currently “fighting” them with the assumption they have morals and will stop if we firmly tell them to. Did the protest annoy trump? 100%. Probably spend the entire night annoyed. Is he rethinking his fascist plans? Absolutely not.
I do think the protests are beautiful to see. So much solidarity and love. Its amazing to see with our own eyes that our side is MASSIVE. and that the right does not have nearly as much people as they pretend they do.
But i also know it won’t change but. Trump is not going to leave. He will not stop advancing his fascist plans. ICE continues their gestapo bullshit. LGBT and womens rights continue to be taken away.
It’s a beautiful morale boost. But sadly that is all it is.
Sorry for the rant. I do love seeing the protests and i really have so much respect for the people out on the streets. But i don’t think much, if anything, will change.
But in condemning violence it would be an act of irresponsibility not to be as strong in condemning the conditions in our society that cause people to feel so angry that they have no alternative but to engage in riots. What we must see is that a riot is the language of the unheard.
What is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last 10 or 12 years. It’s failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. It has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity.
- MLK Jr
Does anyone think that Donnie is going to be sad if someone burns a truck? Or a Home Depot? Or an ICE officer?
Don’t follow the provocateurs in pointless vandalism. Protest, and save the rocks to throw at the people who are directly responsible for this blatant fascism.
A burnt truck cant be used to haul people away. An injured ICE goon can’t kidnap people.
Not breaking random things is important. But the goons and their weapons and tools absolutely need to be broken.
True. But they have more trucks. And if you arrest/deport/shoot the people burning the trucks, there’s a chance that the trucks will eventually stop being burnt. Donnie would love to escalate this all the way to a fascist racist police state.
Grandma’s blocking ICE arrests gives off real tank-man-of-Tiananmen-square energy, and it’s hard to justify shooting "normal americans"without looking like the fascist goons that they are. But, shooting a guy waving a Mexican flag while looting and buring down a shoe store … some might agree that it’s justified to stop this “foreign invasion” with military force.
I can’t blame people for wanting to stop ICE from kidnapping innocent people. But, we don’t want to serve up justifications on a silver platter either.
LAPD shot journalists who were providing live coverage of the protests.
We are well past the point. Also serve justification for who? The notion not to serve them justifications implies that there is a sizable part of the population that would take to the streets if they see unjust police violence. We already have the unjust police violence. Now is the time to take to the streets. And taking to the streets means to not obey the dispersal orders and curfews that will be placed. Because then the protests will not be any threat to the government.
Peaceful protest or “sitting it out” is when you have hope to last longer than the current crisis.
The current crisis, at least in the US, is not going to vanish that quickly. The real crisis is the dropping wages, and that’s not gonna revert much. Socialism or barbarism!
The moment the inconvenience of jail or ending up dying during an insurrection is better than the actual situation, shit is gonna spiral. People will riot violently, government is gonna fuck with the lives of folks who didn’t, more will join, more will get fucked, and repeat until Donnie is no more.
This is like saying, “If you’re going to be wrongly accused of a crime, you may as well commit it”…just to prove them right?
Not sure how this advice does anything other than give Trump exactly what he wants.
Look if I was gonna be falsely accused of assault and knew for a fact that there was nothing I could do about it in court I might beat the shit out of the accusor. Trump is gonna get what he wants whether we like it or not. Fascism is inevitable
Put your money where your mouth is, random writer with an actor for an avatar. Pretty easy to advocate for mass violence on a blog.
Advice acknowledged, random anonymous lemming.
Oh you’re the minor internet celebrity Nina Illingsworth? Wow, thank you for acknowledging me
I am not, but good that you acknowledge that this person is actual eponymous, even though you’re a creepy little shit about it.
Looking into the source when someone advocates for mass violence is creepy to you?
Her Patreon has a fuckin Dynasty Warriors screenshot for an icon. Convince me this person is worth listening to because from here, she’s extremely online.
Look at this motherfucker sitting anonymously while literal jackbooted fascist shit is happening and wringing their hands because someone said that you cannot ever be peaceful enough for fascists and asking them to postt some crimin’ for their own evaluation. 'Fuck outa here, shitlib.
Lmao
Either that or I’m annoyed by the stupid idea from a wannabe internet celebrity getting posted everywhere like it’s profound or important because it’s written in a kind of funny edgelord style.
Based on this reply, I would believe that you’re actually “Nina”
disengage
How does anonymity invalidate their statements?
It doesn’t. But the movie star/video game PFPs and Tumblr rant style of writing heavily give the impression that they’re a dime-a-dozen blogger with little real world experience because they’re terminally online
What gives you the impression that she isn’t?
Figured she’d say something if she’s so passionate about being there. I looked at her website and just see a blog - which to be clear, I think is fine. We need writers. What we don’t need need is an armchair warrior telling everyone they’re doing it wrong in an finger-blaming rant. It’s like she just wants something to write about
Now as for the actual content of the message, the dumb hyperbole in her second paragraph makes it obvious she’s just ranting and doesn’t actually have a plan. She’s got a chip on her shoulder but if she thinks she’s so smart, she should lead the charge…not grumble from the back of the room.
idk fam, posting online about going to protests you’re specifically saying shouldn’t be peaceful seems like it’d be questionable opsec tbh
Sure. And telling the people “on your side” to start killing cops seems like questionable advice - almost like they have a different goal in mind.
Go on. Say what you’re implying, don’t be a coward about it.
Sure, I’ll say it nice and slow so you can understand: The majority of violence at antifa protests were from cops in antifa clothes. How dare I question the motives here, right?
You’re saying I’m a creepy little shit for wanting to verify that this person wasn’t some infiltrator riling people up. Sounds like you’d follow anyone if they used some angry words in their post.
Just as expected, not just a shitlib, but a copjacketing shitlib. So now you can fuck off properly.
“I can’t believe no one is doing anything!! I’ll post on twitter where real change happens!”
Absolutely right. Even Gavin Newsome is doing nothing but threatening to file a lawsuit. Buncha goddamn pussies. There is only ONE way to deal with Nazis and it isnt bEiNg pEaCeFuL
What do you mean “even”? Gruesome Newsom is the shittiest lib of them all
Fair point. Guess I was speaking to the shitlibs who will be clutching pearls while reading this thread
What? So then how is this “absolutely right”?
It is absolutely right to use direct action against the Nazis and stop trying to walk on eggshells to keep them from acting like Nazis. Nazis are gonna Nazi; you cannot appease them by being pacifists. The entire shitlib argument is fucking bullshit and is what gave us the fucking Nazis in the first place.
Robbing stores isn’t good PR. I’m working with the right to do positive PR for you guys if you ever do anything to a cop or to cop property. I’m pretty good at selling it “as long as they aren’t harming peaceful citizens or local businesses. Who the fuck cares if zog has a bad day.” Then you have people looting stores and I can’t run PR for you on the right. And they look at the news and say, “See, getting the illegals out of here was a good idea.”
When people steal stuff the whole movement, even the people not doing it, just becomes propaganda for the other side. What would be increadable PR is if crowds physically prevented looting.
In a system that values profits over peoples’ lives, stealing is a morally good act.
Well you loose the political game when it ends up on TV. You are making negative progress with your political goals because the political will to get rid of what are perceived as “lawless illegals” only increases.
Is it morally right to loose? Because this is how you loose.
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There’s nothing wrong with human rights but how does harming the lives of innocent people help human rights? It makes it hard to sell to other people you are serious about human rights. Instead you just look like a problem. A problem that motivates leaning on fascism. So when stores get robbed you are making negative ground with anything you want to do.
Then you have people looting stores and I can’t run PR for you on the right. And they look at the news and say, “See, getting the illegals out of here was a good idea.”
During news coverage of hurricane Helena, when marganalized people availed themselves of foodstuffs, they were called “looters,” and when whites did it, they were brave who were caring for their families. I’m not talking about those who took other things, but then, why shouldn’t someone have a tv or radio to listen to news?
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Yes. But it isn’t robbing mom and pop stores.
For real! In this goddam hellscape we live in, these libs want to shame us for enjoying even the barest symbolic victories. Cop car on fire is objectively cool, no matter what any liberal killjoy scold says.
It is objectively cool. But harming mom and pop businesses gets really hard to sell as cool. Trying to convince people outside of your political silo that burning cop cars is cool is difficult but possible. The other one isn’t.
Maybe we should stop pandering to people who are going to hate us no matter what we do. This is open class warfare, we are waaayyyy past PR battles.
Lately people are starting to come around to ways social media makes people sick, and understanding consequences of the information age; from my experience the first casualty of this was not our attention spans, but our will to resist. Apparently just telling people your opinions on things anonymously gratifies your ego just enough without having to sign a petition, or stand outside in a line. “I’m so passionate about this subject I spend every waking moment talking about it online.; uh yeah I can’t make it to the protest sorry, It’s like a 30 minute drive and I have work in the morning.”
To be fair i do actually have work in the morning.
It has to get worse before it can get better. Violate.
