Why, so you can preach “unity” and “looking forward, not backward” while you decline to prosecute?
Call in the State National Guard or admit you’re part of the controlled opposition already.
This is directly contradicted not just by the article but also by the headline.
Just to remind you the headline was “Gov. Tim Walz encourages Minnesotans to film ICE agents for future prosecutions” emphasis added.
The first part of the article says:
Gov. Tim Walz encouraged Minnesota residents to carry their phones at all times to record federal immigration actions, promising during a statewide address on Wednesday night that “accountability is coming” for abuses by federal officers.
Emphasis added again.
The issue with calling in the National Guard… is that Trump could immediately federalize the National Guard. So then you’d have a bunch of ICE thugs with National Guard protecting them.
Walz mobilized the National Guard yesterday, I think he sees this coming. If they are already under his order, and then Trump federalizes them, they’ll have to make choices.
Justice delayed is justice denied. Order your state police to arrest these law-breaking ICE agents, fire any who decline to do so, and appoint new people who will.
Stop relying on your voters to do your job for you.
Hey, uh, if you’re the Governor of the state in which you know there are federal agents committing crimes maybe YOU should do something.
You can literally do the bare minimum. ICE are driving recklessly, trespassing private property of American citizens and businesses, etc. They are doing it constantly. Maybe start there. Can we get the first “ICE agents ticketed for reckless driving” at the very fucking least?
Like, something? You can use your state and city power to at the very least make things inconvenient to them.
I’m so tired of this “they want us to resist so they have a reason to escalate”. THEY ARE GOING TO ESCALATE NO MATTER WHAT! That’s how we fucking got here!
Seriously. We’ve got wine moms driving around and using whistles to slow them down and get attention. But the only thing the state governor can do right now is tell people “film the crimes, because we won’t do anything about them right now”.
How do you want anybody to prosecute them if there’s no video evidence? He’s right to encourage people to film them.
The Minnesota FOP expressed support for ICE. Who do you want Walz to order to arrest them?
Did I say people shouldn’t film ICE? The point of the judicial system is to prosecute crime. This guy is a governor. His job is to use his power and the police to PREVENT crime.
You’re ignoring the entire point of my comment.
If the police are saying they support ICE doing crime. You remove those police from power. He’s the governor!
Deputize the citizens that are actually defending their neighborhoods from ICE. He has power that he refuses to use.
You can’t spend the next 3 years not using state power to defend your citizens. Trump is escalating. He should be using everything at his disposal to counter federal powers with his state powers. Otherwise, we are done. There is only federal and there is only fascism. People that don’t want to be abducted by ICE are being told indirectly “your only option is your own acts of self defense and violence. The state will do nothing until you have already been killed/taken. Just ‘trust us’ to save you in 3 years”
The FOP is basically a police union, the governor doesn’t have power over them.
Are you suggesting he somehow convinces the anti-cop crowd to become cops? Good luck with that. You’re simultaneously arguing that those people aren’t the ones with the responsibility to fix this, so who’s gonna sign up for that?
No matter what he does, the feds are only going to retaliate harder. It’s like someone’s stuck in quicksand and you’re telling them “Thrash harder! Why aren’t you doing anything?!?”
Dude. You are literally trying to argue about doing nothing. Pointing to “rules” that he can’t break while the fucking president has SS troops going door to door asking for papers.
Can you please have some perspective here? The state governor can break the rules too. There is precedent for it with the fucking president invading his state.
Why? Why are liberals more interested in restricting themselves to the rules while the entire time the right is shitting on the constitution?
The Trump administration is going to lie and say you are a “radical leftist terrorist”. Can we please start actually treating the situation with the “radical leftist” response is requires? That’s what we need!
Please understand this. You are going to get dragged to the camps screaming “but my rights! I followed the rules!”
What “rules” did I say he can’t break?
What “rules” can he break that would help the situation in any way.
(1) Give citizens the confidence that the state police have been directed to enforce state laws that ICE breaks. ICE coming to peoples doors without warrants signed by a judge are TRESPASSING according to state law. Tell them that the police have direct to enforce state law.
(2) If police are refusing to enforce state law and trespass ICE. Fire them.
You can say “oh, he can’t do that because he doesn’t control…”
No, he’s the governor. He has the political power to do this. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the direct powers vs. political powers. He has the political power to do this.
The major appoints the police chief. Walz has political power and influence over the mayor of Minneapolis. The major has political power to remove the police chief and replace them with someone that WILL fire officers.
Yes, this takes people in the state actually working together to enforce the law. Yes, the governor does not have power alone. But this is how politics works man.
The “rules” I’m referring to are about breaking this established order that I’m referring to. Breaking those rules means actually pressuring (or in some cases removing) people in their positions that refuse to defend the citizens of the state. Breaking the rules means using the state power to defend citizens against the federal invasion.
But Walz isn’t even doing that. He’s not messaging in a way that brings the power of the citizens to his side. He is not being “strategic” he is being a pushover. He’s rolling over and showing his belly.
If he was smart (or cared) he’d already be messaging to the people that “the police WILL ensure ICE is arrested if they a breaking the law”. This would light a fire under the asses of the people under him (mayor, police chief) to actually be held accountable for enforcing the law of the state. What ICE is doing is illegal according to state law. If they want a legal battle make it clear that this is a constitutional crisis of state vs. federal powers by actually challenging those federal powers with state and city law enforcement.
If all of that fails. Call in the national guard in the name of the state. Before Trump does.
Right now. He’s putting himself and the state in a position to “lose without a fight”. He needs to fight even if it that means he ends up losing.
Yes, the police or national guard may not comply. But, they are literally already being used to defend ICE NOW? Like, what are you even arguing against? The worse case in that is ALREADY HAPPENING because Walz and Frey have done nothing to change that.
It seems like you’re the one fundamentally misunderstanding the organizational structure of state and local governance.
The mayor appoints the police chief. Walz has political power and influence over the mayor of Minneapolis.
No he doesn’t. There is no direct chain of authority from the governor to the mayor. The mayor is elected by the people of Minneapolis, and directly answerable to the people of Minneapolis. The governor is elected by the people of Minnesota and is directly answerable to the people of Minnesota. They often work together on mutual goals that require cooperation, but neither one is accountable to the other.
Walz doesn’t even appoint the MSP police chief; that position is chosen from within the ranks via promotion. The closest thing he could do is appoint a new DPS commissioner, which wouldn’t have much effect.
The “rules” I’m referring to are about breaking this established order that I’m referring to. Breaking those rules means actually pressuring (or in some cases removing) people in their positions that refuse to defend the citizens of the state. Breaking the rules means using the state power to defend citizens against the federal invasion.
Those wouldn’t be breaking any rules, but this isn’t about rules. It’s not about being “against the rules,” it’s about feasibility: what’s possible and what’s not possible. Here’s what the mayor of Minneapolis said:
Why are we put in this position? We’re put in this position because we have approximately 600 police officers in Minneapolis, far fewer that are able to work at any given time. And there are approximately 3,000 ICE agents in the area.
For the record, MSP has about the same number of troopers as MPD, and they’re primarily tasked with traffic enforcement.
And if your idea is to recruit more people to the police force who will fight ICE, how do you plan to convince a bunch of leftists to become cops?
Lastly, it’s not like the leadership is sitting around twiddling their thumbs, they’re following the legal process to seek an injunction:
Minnesota, Minneapolis and St. Paul filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration Jan. 12, calling the surge of federal law enforcement into the state “unlawful violent conduct” and “excessive force.”
The lawsuit seeks a court order to halt the immigration crackdown. So far no temporary measures have been ordered, and the lawsuit is pending.
It’s all they can do right now. Sure, it’s a constitutional crisis, but violent means of resistance aren’t called for until all other options have been exhausted. That means secession isn’t on the table unless midterms are either canceled or ignored.
Mobilizing the national guard against federal agents would amount to open rebellion. No matter how corrupt and unqualified the federal administration and DPS/ICE troops are, it exposes the leadership of the state, the guard, and all its troops to legal penalties up to and including treason which can be punishable by death. And we all know how republicans are frothing at the bit to execute people. So unless you’re confident that your state guard can win against the feds, that move is unadvisable. And since it would bring in full military mobilization, it would be a detrimental escalation. Not beneficial to the people of Minnesota or Minneapolis.
The governor and the mayor know these things. They know more than you do, so stop calling them cowards for not doing enough. Nothing they can do is enough, and anything they can do would be akin to thrashing while caught in quicksand.
He could deploy the national guard.
Edit: I made the assumption on which person using the national guard commenter was talking about. Should have clarified their pronoun usage before responding. Original below that assumed the “He” referring to Trump.
He’s already going to do that! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. It’s like each escalation that occurs we have liberals saying “well, yeah, we didn’t do anything to resist and he still escalated; but we should still not resist because then he’ll escalate even MORE! Surely, if we keep doing nothing they won’t escalate to the next step”
Do people have the memory of a gold fish? What is your line? Like, please write it down so you remember. Because the line has been crossed 100 times already.
There is always another step of escalation. Pointing to it, in fear, as a reason to do nothing is what you are doing.
Your entire post was in the context of Walz and how he could do more. Of course I meant Walz could deploy the National Guard. He could even use the state police. But yes, point is I agree he should be doing more. Liberals should be doing more. Trump is a much larger threat than they are treating him as.
Yeah. Sorry, I’m use to liberals responding with “don’t poke the beast” as they’re alone in a cage with it. So I jumped to frustration. I agree. He could absolutely deploy the national guard and create a constitutional crisis. We need a stand to be taken.
I think that dude meant Walz could deploy the guard.
Eh, yeah. Maybe. Bad time to use a pronoun since it could be either. I should have not assumed.
When is he going to do that?
Yep, bullies back down when confronted. ICE is too dumb to be cops and too much a coward to be military. When people like Mark Kelly fight back, they back down. Those Epstein files are going to be insane
This is simply not a good enough answer. Justice for another season. Walz, like most Democrats, is misreading the moment to such a grave extent there will be no future for this country. This is not an age for consigliere.
The American way of doing things is over. The advocates and defenders of process handed the reigns of power to someone who doesn’t believe system and they will not be handing those reigns back. Why would they?
Walz might feel like they’ve got their hands tied. If they activate the national guard, Trump can effectively take them over too. Police, Sheriff departments, we see them in the live streams with the backs to ICE and batons ready to put even more violence against the residents and protesters.
The answer is for Walz to conscript every day Minnesotans into a civil defense force. If Trump is going to turn ICE into a paramilitary force to brutalize and oppress everyday citizens, it’s time to take those who show up and turn them into a force to oppose ICE. Waiting too long to take a significant enough action which will actually make a difference is how we got here.
This isn’t a both sides issue. It’s time for a change.
The problem is complex:
ICE has all the intel to know where they want to show up. Hard to direct masses if you have no prior knowlege where, and one can bet on ICE escalating into shooting at protesters (they’re not national guard nor army but trump’s personal armed forces and can do what they want basically).
Everyone of them counts and is sure of his orders being above any law because trump says so. A good chunk of the police and judiciary system also is fully under trump’s thumb so the only ones to be prosecuted will be the protesters.But on top of it all, at least half the country, on both sides, thinks its best to let trump have his hissyfit of a regime and “all will be fixed when the midterms come” … well the year of the midterms is here and things are only heating up more … soon it will be “we’ll hold out 'till 2028 or when trump dies and there will be peaceful elections to calm the country”…
The majority is so brainwashed about internal workings of the USA as told in school they can’t see it has turned into a full on fascist country now, with a dictator on top, including the razzia’s like the Nazi’s used to do in WW2 …it is all already here!
This IS what Anne Frank was hiding from on that attic!And it will NOT go away peacefully. Not now, not at the midterms and not in 2028, not even upon trump’s death.
Not just trump but every single person currently working for the trump regime will try to avoid the regime’s collapse because it will not bring good things…
“I was only following orders” was not a valid excuse in 1946, nor will it be if the regime falls so those involved will forcefully keep it on course.
The time will come where membership lists of the democratic party will be confiscated and those on it will be targeted for punishment.
I like this idea! Show them the meaning of “a well regulated militia.”
The American way of doing things is over.
LMAO. Sure, bud.
We’re gonna hang all those videos here, right next the The Meuller Report
Good. Use a really high resolution camera with a decent telephoto lens if you can.
Stay well away from being a target, but close enough that you can catch everything clearly.
Keep a handful of SD cards (preferrably use a micro SD card in a tray and swap it out for a fullsized if it looks like you may get picked up… The full size card may throw them off enough so they won’t be looking for a micro one - they’re not the brightest of men) on hand to swap out if things heat up and you’ve got damming evidence, and wear clothes that you can tuck that micro card into a pocket that won’t get found easily.
I expect that if things go sideways for Trump as his dementia takes hold even more, he may try and mass pardon the ICE agents, but the states will need vidence to bring charges. Yeah, there are those saying don’t bother, we need violence - and that may be the case we get there, but if that rabbit gets pulled out of the hat and the mid-terms roll out with a democratic sweep, the states will need as much evidence as they can get.
The only thing Trump knows is lawsuits. His MO is what Roy Cohn taught him.
He’s a massive pussy which is why he gets self-loathing, angry goons to fight for him - Steven Miller is exactly that, a Roy Cohn copy, (who also suffers from Little Mans Disease) and he will be thrown under the bus like EVERY thug that thought they could be “Big Men” working for the NY kiddie fucker.
but if that rabbit gets pulled out of the hat and the mid-terms roll out with a democratic sweep, the states will need as much evidence as they can get.
As if. It’ll just be more: “Now is not the time to hold grudges. We must look towards the future, not the past. We will extend our hand to our republican brothers…” The same yadda yadda yadda every time the democrats get any semblance of power.
That’s why we need to vote for people that are interested in working for us, not more establishment dems.
not more
establishmentdems.Fixed that for you
See how they like a surveillance state turned back on them
They’ll feel a little scared, because they’re cowards, but if nothing actually happens they’ll just use it to justify more violence where people don’t fight back with any teeth.
so what just go with self defeat? part of the way things got this bad is stupid people never giving up on bad ideas so if you want to say that ice will never be prosecuted don’t blame me if you are right but I’m going to be stupid for good
I’m saying that you have to do more. Taking some pictures of them might be easy but the reason the US is where it is is because a bunch of weak-willed people refused to anything truly effective because it was difficult.
I’m sure glad I’m not in the US, but likewise I still have the same anger towards my fellow Canadians for being too chicken-shit to actually stand up for themselves. Fuck, convincing a lot of us to just vote for our beliefs is hard enough.
wait what have I been missing out on?
Whelp, I had hope Walz would handle it better. Nope, just another establishment dem with his hand in his ass waiting for it to be over.
Get your states guard out in the streets, arresting these domestic terrorists now. They are operating under unlawful orders. The only viable opportunity is summary execution for said terrorism
The only viable opportunity is summary execution for said terrorism
Nope. That’s not gonna work at all.
Trump will call up the actual military and the National Guard doesn’t have the biggest guns.
