- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Oh great the world’s most precious people have finally been saved and all it took was a genocide on their behalf!
Hamas could have let them go and lay down their arms at any time to stop the war.
The first offer from Hamas to let go all the hostages to Israel was on the 09.10.2023. The Israeli government rejected it then and has rejected it ever since: https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/
In fact, Hamas has stated that they are not interested in any future government in Gaza about a year ago and instead wanted a Palestinian technocratic body to take over. You know what happened? Israel murdered the diplomatic leadership of Hamas in November 2024. And then Israel and the US came out and said, that they had no one to negotiate with. And just a few weeks ago, they tried the same.
In negotiations early this year with Witkoff and others, Hamas even put this in writing - again with the offer of releasing all the hostages - contingent on a stop of Israeli aggression, the continuation of humanitarian aid and the Israeli troops to withdraw from the strip. That treaty was then changed by the US and Israel in May this year before it was rejected.
This has been modus operandi from the beginning from the US and Israel. After they had a deal, change it, make it look as if Hamas is rejecting the deal and capitalize on it. In fact, if you go back in history, you’ll find the same strategy over and over again, to make it look like “Palestinians rejected peace”.
And last but not least: You are telling people to lay down their weapons, that have been under a brutal siege for over two years, while ignoring the side that put in place the siege and genocidal aggression.
Hamas has been willing to hand over governership of Gaza to a Unity Government for over 10 years. When they first made the agreement back in 2014, Israel bombed them. Not in the 2008 Gaza war or the 2012 Gaza war, but actually it was the 2014 Gaza war.
Yes indeed, that’s true. The difference is that now, they don’t even want to be part of a future “unity government” like in 2014. The only thing they demand now is that the government body consist of Palestinians. Or in other words: Palestinian self-determination.
Hamas calling for Israel to not react to their attack two days earlier is ridiculous.
Netanyahu has literally given interviews about how he and Israel have financially supported Hama’s as controlled opposition.
Israel is also the size of New jersey (for Americans) or Slovenia. It is tiny. It is a 6 hour drive or an hour by helicopter. The Israel extreme militarized state, with tons of vehicles and helicopters, didn’t react at all to an attack where sponsered money bought weapons 10 hours later, when there were 2000 people against 169500 active members and 465000 in reserve.
Then when specifically asked if there was an order to the IDF to stand down and not repel the attackers, Israeli leaders have refused to deny it.
Israel with 80000% larger military not reacting at all for 10 hours is ridiculous.
By the way, Israel has had over 1900 Palestinian hostages for a decade not charged or tried at all for supposed crimes including up to 1000 children that they rape with dogs and IDF soldiers, abuse, and torture daily.
Israel expecting no aggression after kidnapping thousands of civilians and enforcing an illegal blockade, and stealing land is ridiculous
Israel was expecting violent attacks from Gaza, just not at the scale. There had been attacks on and off since before the blockade of Gaza started.
been following this closely, so far Israelis shot people within the agreed upon territory, because they were “too close”. yhea, that’s straight up murder.
also, Israel complains that Hamas isn’t returning all the bodies which is an impossible task due someone bombing civilian areas where hostages being held.
also Israel is already kidnapping Palestinians to fill their rape jails again.
also limiting aid entry.
they are expecting an attack because they have been instigating it non stop by ignoring the ceasefire.
Israel could have stopped operating the largest and most inhumane open-air prison in our lifetime at any point in the past 25 years and significantly fewer people would have died, I’m sure.
No, they very obviously could not have. Israel was intent on committing genocide regardless of what Palestinians did. You’re blaming the victims of an atrocity and should feel ashamed.
How did that work out for them the last….10 or so times Israel violated a ceasefire agreement?
@eporetsky@lemmy.world explain yourself
There was a ceasefire on October 6th 2023.
How did digging in deep and fighting tooth and nail work out for Hamas? It invited total destruction.
Do it again! I’m enjoying the spectacle.
The Israeli military said the strikes were in response to an alleged “attack” by Palestinians on its troops in southern Rafah involving a rocket-propelled grenade and sniper fire.
You can learn to read the article yourself.
Surely they would provide evidence for such a bold claim? Oh wait…
What’s your evidence? A Middle East Eye article?
I need some entertainment. How are you going to explain this away this time?
Maybe this?
Medical sources announced the martyrdom of citizen Nidal Eid Salmi Abu Hlayb (62 years old) from Al-Qarara, north of Khan Younis, and the arrival of his body at Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital after he was shot by Israeli “Quadcopter” drone fire.
Are there even quadcopter drones with guns operated by the IDF?
And how do you explain this away as well?
These people were likely crossing the yellow line that was agreed upon in the ceasefire deal. The IDF is still in Gaza and enforces a security perimeter. There have been a couple of these cases.
Of course I’m not there and don’t know if the soldiers stuck to the rules of engagement or were trigger happy assholes.
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They barricaded them in a prison city. They even blockaded any sea access they had. They shot tank rounds at children for fun. They eradicated every single building they could. Spare us the diatribe. Fuck Israel.
When Israel left Gaza in 2005, there was no blockade. It took years of attacks until it was instated to stop the smuggling of weapons.
people being this clueless still amazes me.
Nobody typing that is clueless, they’re getting paid (or scammed, if they’re not getting paid).
Exactly, anyone still this clueless is a troll.
When are we going to recognize that both Hamas and the current Israeli government are shitty murderous people that are backed by quite a big % of their population.
It’s not about being pro-Israel or pro-Palestine. It’s about backing muderers or not.
Yes. And yet you’ll get banned from plenty of lemmy subs for saying it.
Well said.
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even with the ceasefire, Israel is still enforcing starvation
Israel to halve Gaza aid over slow return of dead hostages
https://ground.news/article/israel-to-halve-gaza-aid-over-slow-return-of-dead-hostages_89770c
300 trucks per day are still coming in, which is plenty to keep Gaza fed. Not all aid is food. There’s also construction materials and all kinds of other stuff.
They could have and they should have. In fact, Hamas shouldn’t have existed in the first place but
Now that we have our chosen ones back, we start bombing again, yay!
Once the dead hostages are out, too, Israel will bomb Gaza to dust, killing everyone still living there.
they already began the starvation again
Israel to halve Gaza aid over slow return of dead hostages
https://ground.news/article/israel-to-halve-gaza-aid-over-slow-return-of-dead-hostages_89770c
plus shootings at people
Israel says it opens fire on suspects in Gaza, local authorities report six killed
I suspect most of the killed hostages fell prey to Israeli bombs, anyway. Hamas probably has no clue about the whereabouts of the corpses because the people who were originally guarding them have been killed, too. That is going to be interesting…
In the end, Israel is just waiting for a “justification” to continue the killing.
not only that, but even if Hamas is in the wrong, starvation is a genocidal war crime.
you don’t commit a genocide in response to anything
you don’t get to “you made me do it” a genocide
Yup
So…now more bombing? I hope it stops here but I doubt it.
Now that they’re almost done with the final solution? They’ll “accidentally” drop some bombs on schools/hospitals until a single Hamas member kills a military, then they’ll have excuse to continue bombing like before.
So no excuses anymore. You got your POWs back. Any aggression on the people of Gaza is just for your bloodlust (as it has been this whole time). No more hiding their genocidal psychopathic behavior behind false pretenses.
They never had an excuse. They did it because they could.
they already began the starvation again
Israel to halve Gaza aid over slow return of dead hostages
https://ground.news/article/israel-to-halve-gaza-aid-over-slow-return-of-dead-hostages_89770c
plus shootings at people
Israel says it opens fire on suspects in Gaza, local authorities report six killed
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It’s crazy reading reports about how some of these hostages were ‘kidnapped from their tanks’ with ‘other soldiers’.
Just an fyi. Tanks can be smoked out. If you don’t have infantry supporting it. They are an easy target. Also they’re Israeli’s What do you think? They’re Rambo? Hell no.
Mark my words, they’re gonna bomb again.
100%
honestly, I’m surprised they haven’t started
oh, nevermind
Israel says it opens fire on suspects in Gaza, local authorities report six killed
Israel to halve Gaza aid over slow return of dead hostages
https://ground.news/article/israel-to-halve-gaza-aid-over-slow-return-of-dead-hostages_89770c
The war has destroyed large swaths of Gaza and displaced about 90% of its some 2 million residents. It has also triggered other conflicts in the region, sparked worldwide protests and led to allegations of genocide that Israel denies.
So when will the 500,000 Gazan hostages be freed?
Leaders from all over the world are making a show of it in honor of the reality-TV-star-US-president. They only invite one Palestinian representative (Abbas) from the PA to their talks. The same PA that controls only parts of the West-Bank and is highly unpopular with the Palestinian populace because they are seen as collaborators with the occupation. The “peace” “deal” came about without involvement of Palestinians. Just like 100 years ago, the fate of Palestine is being decided by colonial powers.
All the while, militant groups (if they were fighting against Israel they would be rightfully called terrorists) are continuing Israels’s tradition of killing journalists in the strip and are fighting Hamas for control.
Now we don’t know which groups these are, but back in June Netanyahu has admitted to backing militant groups in Gaza. Occam’s Razor would imply, that these would be among them.
It’s good that the bombings have stopped, that humanitarian aid has started to reach a population under a medieval-style siege for so long, offering a bit of - even if incomplete - respite. But I fear for the population once the show in Cairo is over.
EDIT: And no one is looking at the horror that is going on in the West-Bank. Nor is anyone including any points in a “deal”.
The PA is the internationally recognized representative of the Palestinian people. When other governments recognize the state of Palestine, it’s the PA they recognize as its government.
That is not entirely true. Italy and Japan for example have just a few weeks ago said, that they are thinking of recognition of a Palestinian state making it contingent on several changes of Hamas.
But this is neither here or there. If among a whole people, the only organization that is invited does represent only a minority of the people, which can be seen from their low approval, then this meeting is a farce. In the case of the PA, if you read the linked article, they have actively focused on cracking down on anti-occupation groups in Jenin, while Israel has forced around 40000 Palestinians out of their homes during ‘Operation Iron Wall’ early this year. Instead of opposing, they colluded. This is not the Palestinian people deciding their own fate, but colonial powers imposing their will on them.
The PA is an arm of Israeli Apartheid, Occupation, and Suppression.
The PA creates the appearance of Palestinian autonomy, but in fact, much like the governments of the Bantustans of apartheid South Africa, it is simply an extension of the colonial state, a tool of counterinsurgency that is highly effective for the repression of local rebellions, because it makes the native population police itself. Fatah, which was a revolutionary movement in the early days of the armed struggle, is now mostly contained by the PA.
Israel’s stabilization strategy, inspired by modern counterinsurgency doctrine, has rested on two pillars: the employment of pacification measures to co-opt Palestinians and reliance on the Palestinian Authority (PA) to police its population on Israel’s behalf. However, many Palestinians are now fighting back against this approach, while the PA’s eroding legitimacy has only hardened the population’s refusal to accept its restrictive methods.
It is presented here as it has been perceived by the Israeli policymakers and bureaucrats down the years. For them the PA was an integral and crucial component in the open-air prison model suggested in the 1990s, and one which the pragmatic elite of Israel still hopes to instate in the West Bank, at least in the near future.
- Ilan Pappe - The Biggest Prison on Earth
In appearance, the PA has all the trappings of a state, with ministries and a civil service, but Israel wields the real power, turning the tap on tax revenue, and controlling access to the shrinking territories – a status quo often compared with the Bantustans of apartheid-era South Africa.
The PA has actively helped Israel to keep tight control over the Palestinian population. Many perceive the body as a tool of the Israeli security apparatus, its US-trained forces not only targeting those suspected of planning attacks on Israelis, but also arresting union figures, journalists and critics on social media.
Israel relies on this division of the West Bank to foster the fiction that the Palestinian Authority is the entity primarily responsible for administering the life of the majority of Palestinians in the West Bank. In practice, however, Israel still retains control over the entire West Bank and all its residents.
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Looking forward to the media showing the story for each of the 2000 released Palestinian hostages
And the two million who are still hostages.
They will start by calling them prisoners of war
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Naive of you to think they ever cared in the first place. Bibi will gladly murder half of Israel population with his bare hands if that means he gets to murder some Palestinians more. And he’s not alone in that.
Good for Hamas. Hopefully no more genocide for the future.
Hopefully no more genocide for the future.
Unfortunately nope: https://www.palestinechronicle.com/hamas-disarmament-demand-rejected-as-out-of-the-question/
Or do you have any reason to believe that Hamas will not try this again?
What sound does one hand clapping make?
I think the war went on too long. But Israel had every right to retaliate after Oct 7th. I’n glad they did. But it should have stopped a couple months in. Not two whole years with massive unjust collateral damage.
Perhaps someone else can provide a link, but there has been evidence that Israel knew about the Oct 7th attacks and allowed them to happen.
Even before that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas
Also you don’t fund an organisation like this without getting a couple of your guys in.
