“Political violence is unacceptable in america” proceeds to bomb the ever living shit out of the middle east
It’s the antigenocideS club. We’re allowed to have one.
Liberals are fascists now? What in the fuck is going on lol
Nope, but Neoliberals sure are crying about the death of a fascist while ignoring the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Which is what the meme illustrates.
So that’s where you moved to, you tankie piece of shit.
I haven’t “moved to” anything, I’m just crossposting and explaining a meme illustrating a valid grievance with Neoliberal politicians.
95 of them voted to honor the fascist scumbag
In contrast, 27 voting to stop selling weapons to Israel is treated as a fucking miracle.
And not that it matters, but I’m nothing close to a tankie. Check the sidebar of the community you’re in, dumbass.
I also remember when they all stood for and applauded an actual Nazi in Parliament.
The “anti-tankie” people don’t talk about that very much do they?
Sitting on a fence is why we are where we are.
They are delusional.
Is it your impression that most of the Democrats are anything other than “conservative” in any normal political spectrum?
I objected to the meme but I actually think it’s completely accurate as applied to most Democrats in congress or groups of people who think generally like them. It honestly just didn’t even occur to me that by “liberals” you might mean that grouping though.
normal political spectrum
What does it matter where you are on an arbitrary spectrum if you’re still participating in genocide?
Me: “Oh, you’re right, yeah most of the Democrats in Washington are complicit in genocide. Looked at in that way I agree with your meme.”
You: NO NO NO I WANT TO ARGUE YOU MUST BE WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING
Idk how often it needs to be pointed out that Americans dont have some special definition of liberal that has shed itself of all the problems of their European progenitors - they’ve simply forgotten all the ways in which liberalism runs ideological cover for exploitation.
“I agree with this meme if I detach myself of the liberal label” seems like a moment of self-awareness to me. Im not trying to discourage it, but I think it’s important to look at how electoralism has broken people’s understanding of political discourse.
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In your addled mind, what is a tankie? Anyone to the left of Chuck Schumer? Anyone who isn’t a fascist but also doesn’t automatically support Hakeem Jeffries? Anyone who disagrees with your perspective and isn’t a fascist?
For the record, I abhor tankies and their authoritarian bullshit. You can “make note” of that if you will.
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break up unity on the left
You mean challenge Neoliberal supremacy of everything to the left of fascism. Neoliberalism isn’t even left of center ffs! It’s the ideology of Ronald Reagan, Joe Lieberman and Hakeem Jeffries.
make me fucking sick.
Nah, sounds like you were plenty fucking sick already 🤷
So do us both a favor and don’t fucking @me your bullshit again.
I wasn’t going to, but now that you’re asking, I’ll waste a few more sentences on your obtuse ass 😄
Fucking tankie bitch.
break up unity
Ooooh… when somebody starts whinging about “left unity” I smell liberal… is that what you are?
Bruh, I just read the whole thread. What’s ypur problem?
Oh also, I fucking hate tankies.
Learn what it means then. Hint: The term was made by Marxist-Leninists.
Kindly, stay out of it if you don’t know about it. Please and thank you.
Liberals being fascists outside their borders is the entire colonial era.
When they start to become fascist domestically too that’s when you know shits about to get bad.
You can’t have fascism without liberalism. The hand that dangles the carrot cannot be seen to also wield the stick.
The American and British political Liberals have always been fine with Fascism, as long as that the Fascists did their fascist things abroad - I mean, just look at the kind of politicians American Administrations - Democrats and Republicans alike - always supported in South America and the Middle East (the current government in Israel and its Genocide that’s turning into a New Holocaust being a painful present day example).
They were supposed to be against Fascism in the Homeland, but as we’re seeing now in the US and UK the top “Liberal” politicians when Fascism starts doing its thing in their country quickly bend the knee and even turn collaborationist, which if you think about it makes sense: their objection to Fascism was never Ethical or Moral - had it been so they would’ve been against it abroad too - it was really only about power and wealth, so if the Fascists become the gatekeepers to that, well, the Liberals will do what it takes to keep their access to it, similarly to how they courted the Moneyed Elites when they were the gatekeepers to power and wealth.
Fascist enablers may as well be fascist themselves.
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
There is a big contingent on Lemmy that has constructed an enemy category called “liberals.” They spend a lot of time talking to each other about what liberals believe and how liberals are, and almost all of it is just how stupid, weak, evil, and pointless liberals are. It’s actually exactly the same thing that MAGA people do about… well, about liberals.
You can actually see how it operates in this meme. Pretty much none of the “liberals” on Lemmy have anything other than horror for the killing that’s happening in Gaza, or are in any way upset about Charlie Kirk not being around anymore, but it’s real important to their worldview that they constantly gather around and tell each other about how evil the liberals are, and so none of them will bat an eye at a post like this. Even if they don’t really factually agree with it, it feels really good to experience the meme and talk to one another about how true it is.
Why they do this is deserves careful study. It’s not immediately obvious but if you keep tugging on the thread and looking carefully at how they perceive the political world and why, it carries some key insights.
Pretty much none of the “liberals” on Lemmy have anything other than horror for the killing that’s happening in Gaza
Feeling horror for the genocide isn’t mutually exclusive to attempting to drown out the sound of their suffering and your and your party’s complicity (which is what the liberals in the meme are doing, in case you’re unfamiliar). Acknowledging that the genocide is happening and incredibly sad 😔 isn’t very meaningful when you’re actively trying not to talk about it.
If youve complained about democrats being criticized for enabling Israel over the last year, then you’re in this picture.
Here’s me trying to drown out the sound of their suffering:
- https://lemmy.world/post/24836211
- https://lemmy.world/post/24853409
- https://lemmy.world/post/24896259
- https://lemmy.world/post/24952318
- https://lemmy.world/post/25928525
- https://lemmy.world/post/26656107
- https://lemmy.world/post/27688087
- https://lemmy.world/post/27834034
- https://lemmy.world/post/28479345
- And so on, I just picked some random examples
Here’s me complaining about Democrats being criticized for enabling Israel:
Yes, I know what Palestine is like right now. I care a lot about it. I wrote my congresspeople, back when they were approving the aid, trying to tell them not to do it. I didn’t think it would do anything, and it didn’t. That’s why I didn’t want Trump to come, and make things quite a bit worse than even Biden’s already war-criminal level of performance.
Around 85% of the Palestinians in Gaza are still alive right now, as far as I know. How many once Trump is done with them?
50%?
80%? Will he solve the Middle East during his term, and bring an end to the killing? It seems unlikely.
Less than 10%, with a lot of it annexed to Israel?
That last one seems pretty probable to me. I think better than 50/50 odds. I don’t want to bet.
That was 8 months ago. I have nothing to add to it. It’s mostly come true now, and if you actively pushed in any way for people not to keep Trump out of power, you helped make it happen. Even if you don’t believe there is any difference between “sending weapons” and “sending even more weapons plus turning vague diplomatic complaining into excited diplomatic approval plus putting Americans on the ground to help make it happen,” you still helped usher in the situation where Palestinian protest leaders in the US are getting deported instead of being out there protesting. Good job.
I’m aware that you’re trying hard to reframe me saying “Trump is worse” as if it meant I was making excuses for Biden, or that I’m saying it for any reason other than concern for the Palestinians and all the other people Trump is current fucking up. I am not. Biden was very very bad on this issue, and Trump is worse. That’s what’s up. You can insult me or mischaracterize that any number of types of ways, but that’s what’s up. Tell me I’m wrong.
This is precisely what I’m talking about in my comment. You’re taking a point of view that you might or might not agree with, either of which is fine, and deciding to pretend that it is a horrifying caricature (that I’m so in love with Joe Biden of all the fucking people in the world that I am willing to overlook or downplay a genocide just to have a chance to distract people from talking about a bad thing he did). Because it’s easier than grappling with what’s really going on, you simply pretend that there’s a whole class of people out there running around who are just constantly stupid and wrong, and you comfortably assure one another that’s the explanation for why they sometimes come along and expose you to a critical viewpoint that isn’t what you want to hear.
Go on, continue with it, if you want.
Stop skirting around what the meme is talking about
“Look at this terrible tragedy” is not the same as “if we do not end our complicity in this active genocide, we risk losing everything”
Liberals act as if their only option is to vote or not vote, but that’s simply not the case. If your party is plugging their ears to the tragedy they are helping commit, your job isn’t to make sure everyone knows how bad the other candidate is, it’s to confront your party about why they’re complicating what should otherwise be an easy choice by doing something objectively evil.
2024 was nobody’s fault but the democrats’, for exactly the reason depicted in the meme. Instead of addressing the cries for acknowledgment in their base, they fucked us all.
And here we are again, dealing with their choice to revere and defend the life’s work of a neonazi while we are still waiting for them to acknowledge the genocide they helped commit and which continues a year later. I can’t blow smoke for a party that continuously runs cover for fascists while plugging their ears to their own base.
“Look at this terrible tragedy” is not the same as “if we do not end our complicity in this active genocide, we risk losing everything”
True, but that first one is directly what the meme is referencing. You actually accused me specifically I think of trying to distract from the terrible tragedy.
Liberals act as if their only option is to vote or not vote,
Well, but I don’t act that way. Am I a liberal? According to lots and lots of people on Lemmy, I am. Here’s a comment I made earlier tonight:
Real world non-electoral politics is going to be necessary to get us out of this mess (especially now), and it also leads to a good and fulfilling life. There’s something magic and human that happens with the people around you when you are fighting for something that’s actually worth fighting for, I’ve seen it.
You’d agree with that, right?
Or no?
This is what I’m talking about. Actually some of what you’re saying in this latest message, I agree with. But it has not a lot to do with the meme. My issue with the meme was this wild strawman, lumping congressional Democrats and people on Lemmy into the same ideological category “liberal” and then making a bunch of sweeping statements I guess about both, by which the whole thing can be motte-and-baileyed back around so that all of a sudden I’m an asshole who believes all these wild things and doesn’t care about genocide.
And here we are again, dealing with their choice to revere and defend the life’s work of a neonazi while we are still waiting for them to acknowledge the genocide they helped commit and which continues a year later.
Let’s try this. Who are some examples of who you are talking about here? Like who are 5 people who fit into this category who are revering Charlie Kirk and also won’t admit Gaza is a genocide? I am sure there are plenty of them (not sarcasm, I really do believe lots of those people exist, even some number of them on the American “left.”) Ideally out of government if you can, like I said I don’t think anyone in the US government is all that left (and if you’re only talking about congressional Democrats or something, then yes the meme makes sense.)
I can pretty much guarantee you that whoever those people are, they’re (a) a small subset of the people who the Lemmy consensus would describe as “a liberal” and (b) people I also despise pretty much as much as you do.
Right? Or do you believe that everyone the Lemmy consensus would describe as “liberal” also reveres Charlie Kirk, and also wants to silence any voices of Palestinian suffering?
True, but that first one is directly what the meme is referencing. You actually accused me specifically I think of trying to distract from the terrible tragedy.
No, and no. The meme is referencing liberals walking out of the Democratic National Convention last year literally plugging their ears to protestors who were kicked out for demanding democrats stop supporting Israel’s genocide against palestinians. Liberals then (and now) were refusing to address protestors demanding action against Israel’s genocidal campaign. They sometimes separately acknowledged it as a tragedy but refused to take action against Israel. “I think this is a tragedy, but unfortunately there’s nothing we can do until after the election”.
I haven’t actually accused you of anything, but it does kind of seem like i’m describing you. It’s not my fault you ascribe that label to yourself and hear that as a personal accusation.
Well, but I don’t act that way. Am I a liberal?
Don’t you? Could have fooled me. I could have sworn you were one of those people who place blame on voters for the 2024 election outcome, instead of recognizing the democrats torpedoing their own coalition by demonstrating complete contempt for their own base.
My issue with the meme was this wild strawman, lumping congressional Democrats and people on Lemmy into the same ideological category “liberal” and then making a bunch of sweeping statements I guess about both
-
They are talking about liberals, not a narrow group of congressional democrats
-
I don’t see any mention of lemmy in this meme.
I’d also point out that despite repeatedly agreeing that democrats are contributing to Israel’s genocide, you’ve also repeatedly taken offense at the suggestion that liberals are fascist collaborators.
the whole thing can be motte-and-baileyed back around so that all of a sudden I’m an asshole who believes all these wild things and doesn’t care about genocide
You can claim to care about genocide and also deny that democrats are defending and collaborating with the fascists committing it. The latter certainly casts doubt on the former.
Like who are 5 people who fit into this category who are revering Charlie Kirk and also won’t admit Gaza is a genocide?
There were 60 out of 212 democrats who voted against a resolution honoring Kirk and to my knowledge only 10 democrats have ever referred to it as a genocide. By my math that’s 193 democrats minimum who meet that description.
Or do you believe that everyone the Lemmy consensus would describe as “liberal” also reveres Charlie Kirk, and also wants to silence any voices of Palestinian suffering?
I believe those people would say something like, “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”. Liberals are usually more upset that protestors may have killed momentum for their candidate than for their candidate openly collaborating in a genocide and giving protestors a reason to oppose them in the first place.
I’d also point out that despite repeatedly agreeing that democrats are contributing to Israel’s genocide,
You can claim to care about genocide and also deny that democrats are defending and collaborating with the fascists committing it.
Well, that sure makes sense.
Am I a liberal?
-
Id also point out that many of us have been screaming about this genocide for far longer than 8 months, but were yelled down by liberals for bringing it up while democrats were trying to campaign. I’m not going to trudge through your history for evidence that you cared about it before trump was president elect, but it’s a little telling to me that 8 months ago is when you made that bold declaration.
but were yelled down by liberals for bringing it up while democrats were trying to campaign
You were not yelled down. The majority consensus on Lemmy was that Kamala Harris was responsible for the genocide, I got banned from a couple of places for trying to say any different.
You’re confusing “someone popped up and disagreed with me” for “I was yelled down.” I don’t think you’ll ever find me going into some comments section about Palestine and saying, “Ssh! Don’t talk about this before the election!” Definitely you won’t find me banning anyone for it. What you’ll find is me pushing back hard on people saying “Don’t vote for Democrats, they did genocide!” That there was plenty of, because I don’t think that strategy makes any sense, and because I care about the Palestinian people, I was pushing back on it hoping that the genocide that’s currently taken a massive acceleration would not do that.
If I thought the DNC consultants who make up their awful strategy read Lemmy, I probably honestly would have approached it very very differently than I did. However I do not. I do not think posting on Lemmy influences Democratic politicians. I do think it influences voters (in some pretty tiny way), and so my main input to it is going to be centered around “how can voters behave in a way which will minimize genocide.” Surely that makes sense?
Id also point out that many of us have been screaming about this genocide for far longer than 8 months
https://lemmy.world/search?q=gaza&type=Comments&listingType=All&creatorId=13369510&page=1&sort=Old
When were you screaming about it in a way that didn’t also lead to “don’t vote for Democrats”? Most of what I see here looks pretty electoral. That’s an honest question, I am genuinely asking.
You were not yelled down.
Go and check the political memes comm from early to mid 2024. Check the mod logs of the politics comm from the same time period. There were several struggle sessions about specific users, complaining that ‘all they do is post about Gaza’ and being super paranoid that they were intentionally trying to throw the election. Several were accused of being paid operatives.
I do not think posting on Lemmy influences Democratic politicians. I do think it influences voters
Whoomp, there it is.
Go take it up with MLK.
When were you screaming about it in a way that didn’t also lead to “don’t vote for Democrats”?
You’d have to go look at my previous accounts. I rotate accounts regularly and keep them as separated as possible.
There were several struggle sessions about specific users, complaining that ‘all they do is post about Gaza’
Which users?
I do not think posting on Lemmy influences Democratic politicians. I do think it influences voters
Whoomp, there it is.
Which part of this were you disagreeing with?
Or do you think me saying these two true things is a gotcha about something else? Tell me.
Nah. Fuck liberalism.
Idk I think people are trying to pretend that not voting was the correct answer or something. Sorry non-voters, you caucus with the Trump voters.
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/6197747
^ This is what’s going on. This originated from Hexbear.
Just authoritarian propaganda. Ignore and go about your day.
This is an anarchist meme comm. How can we be authoritarians
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I consider myself a liberal, and i have no problems with nazis dying.
Careful… you might get yourself kicked out of the liberal club with that attitude.
if you think the DNC is liberal, i got news for you, they arnt most are DINOs in reality with a veneer of a “left wing mask”
Liberal ≠ left wing. Modern American liberalism is Neoliberalism, the same ideology as Reagan and Thatcher.
Yeah you must care about ppl in another continent that got terrorist at the head of the gouvernement rather that ppl that get assassinated for not having the correct opinion in your country. Really smart as always
that got terrorist at the head of the gouvernement
That doesnt narrow the list down nearly as much as you think it does
Yeah cause it s very common to have gouvernement planify attack and sharing torture and rape of civilians online. Guess evryone is bad and nobody is worse than others
I hate to break this to you but Israel and the US have both killed, raped, and tortured civilians and had footage of those atrocities on record.
Nobody has asked you to rank the worst terror states and pick your favorite - that’s a burden you’ve placed on yourself.
True but they didn’t share those gladly on the internet in the name of a religious war. More the aspect related to their righteous conviction about commiting the worst atrocities. But dont get me wrong far from me us or israel are perfect
Sure they did, just not on western media.
Still though, I don’t think being marginally less public about committing atrocities makes the people doing them any less contemptible. That the western liberal heart is too soft and fragile to be exposed to the horrors being committed in their name makes their involvement in them more evil, not less.
I disagree on the fact that one of them take public proud in their exaction while the other tried to hide it. But tu be fair this doesn t really apply to israel anymore but at least the us. Also the fact the us did it not on the will of the population, which isnt the case for Hamas and how they parade their prisoner of war in the street
Least racist lib.
there is literally videos of israeli prison gaurds raping palestinians to death. and multiple accurate descriptive whitnesses testifying how Doctor Safiyah was raped to death in front of them.
That Israeli soldier, who rapes hostages to death, was promoted and paid extra by American people hard earned tax money. Thanks AOC and rest of DNC for funding the “defense” of a genocidal ethnostate that keep bombing and killing people from all neighboring “terrorist” countries with $billions of dollars.
See my next comment on the matter.
For hamas they broadcast video of their exaction with their watermark on them. Like I said in my next comment this apply less and less with time passing regarding israel but it s dishonest to say the us does the same
You are either ignorant and super desne and uneducated, or intentionally lying.
The US is paying, planning, aiding, defending, supporting, and covering all of Israel war crimes. The US even hires Nazi Americans who kill starving palestinians on video, and it’s all documented:
So are you here to spread bullshit lies or to know the truth which for some reason you refuse to face?? Who tortured and raped Iraqis in Abugureeb and Guantanamo? Under whose authorization and aiding and protection has Israel been killing people in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Qatar, Yemen, Tunisia, in the last year alone? The fuck are you talking about execusing the US from Gaza’s genocide?!?! Blatant nonesense
